quote:

Originally posted by p7eggyc:
I hear you trying so very, very hard to do this 'right'. I sympathize and encourage you to just let things flow a little bit so you can figure out what does and doesn't work for you. It's going to take some time and some misfires but you'll get there.

I don't know any other way than to try hard to do it 'right.' That is who I am. Remember, it was you who reminded me that being "disappointed in me for being me" is self-defeating. I've tried several times to establish this habit over the past year and have failed every time. Instead of throwing up my hands and saying "Oh well, I am too much of a failure to get this to work." I'm here gathering information so that I can hopefully make a more successful attempt this time.

Don't get me wrong, I hear what you're saying...but I'm not there yet. I'm happy for you that you are, but I'm not. I need structure in order to develop the habit. That doesn't mean I'm going to say "Today is Tuesday, you can ONLY work in the bathroom." but I've got to find some structure to hook this habit on as a starting point--and then I can be as flexible as I want. That is what worked for me in establishing the habit to cook and bring healthy lunches to work every day, that is what worked for me in establishing the habit to exercise before work in the morning...it's all I know. I'm still noodling out what the structure is for this habit.

quote:

Originally posted by SheriaVa:
Question to all but esp. fellow perfectionists:

Would you suggest that I assign each weeknight a room (i.e., Tuesday = kitchen) or might that be counterproductive? Perhaps while I'm trying to establish the habit I could do this and then become more flexible once I've got it going?

I think the idea of tackling a couple of things during ads is a good way to get some stuff done after work without things feeling too overwhelming.

Personally, I think that assigning a room to each day would be counterproductive. Although maybe that would work initially to get things in order.

Good luck Sheri - it sounds like you are really focused on getting this area of your life in order.

quote:

Would you suggest that I assign each weeknight a room (i.e., Tuesday = kitchen) or might that be counterproductive? Perhaps while I'm trying to establish the habit I could do this and then become more flexible once I've got it going?

For me, when I am trying to establish a new habit, building in as much flexibility as possible is really important. I think that just telling yourself to do 'anything' each night would help you set the habit and then if you wanted to become more diliberate with exactly what you do eventually (like sometime next fall )that'll be fine. At this point though, giving yourself an out to do easier things some nights (maybe a chore that you can do sitting in front of a show on commercials) and more energy intensive other nights (like cleaning a shelf in the fridge or something you are up and about at) might be a better idea.

I also like the idea of trying to do things during commercials. I use this strategy a lot when I am really resistant to do anything at all that night. It's sort of a compromise for me but I can definitely see it working well for you as a plan. You are a more deliberate tv watcher than I am so you might not experience this so much but I often find myself working clear through the next segment. FWIW, I don't think the difference between eating 15 min later will make that much difference in terms of metabolism but I know you watch that sort of timing w/evening eating pretty closely.

I hear you trying so very, very hard to do this 'right'. I sympathize and encourage you to just let things flow a little bit so you can figure out what does and doesn't work for you. It's going to take some time and some misfires but you'll get there.

Peg

quote:

Originally posted by SheriaVa:
Question to all but esp. fellow perfectionists:

Would you suggest that I assign each weeknight a room (i.e., Tuesday = kitchen) or might that be counterproductive? Perhaps while I'm trying to establish the habit I could do this and then become more flexible once I've got it going?

My first thought is that what you are suggesting is a lot- I would get too overwhelmed with having to do a room each night.

How about saying you will spend 7-10 minutes each night in a room rotation? This way you know you can do 10 minutes- or at least I know I could. More than that after work and a day of activity each day would not work for me.
Besides, 10 minutes can translate to lots getting done. My guess is that 7-10 minutes per day in rotating rooms would mean far less clutter/stuff than before.
Do you ahve a timer? How about setting the times for 7 minutes?

Question to all but esp. fellow perfectionists:

Would you suggest that I assign each weeknight a room (i.e., Tuesday = kitchen) or might that be counterproductive? Perhaps while I'm trying to establish the habit I could do this and then become more flexible once I've got it going?

quote:

Originally posted by p7eggyc:
I do much better with this sort of stuff if it's the very first thing I do when I walk in the door. I know a lot of people would want to wind down/change clothes/start dinner whatever but for me, it seems if I can just extend my 'working' mindset for 15 min after I get home, I get a lot of bang for that buck.

Yea, a lot of why I struggle against worknight cleaning is that I can't seem to find a time that works. I walk in the door between 6:30 and 7 p.m. most nights and I go to bed by 10 p.m. at the latest (sometimes as early as 9-9:30). I want to eat right away because I want to maximize the time span between food and sleep, but then once my butt is in the chair and I'm eating dinner and watching my Starting Over tape, I have a hard time getting back up...esp. if there's a show I like that comes on at 8 p.m. and my SO tape doesn't end until about that time.

I just need to establish a habit...whether it's doing the 5-15 minutes right when I walk in the door like you do, do it after dinner but before my TV programs begin, or do it during TV commercials throughout the evening.

quote:

I am (and have always been) VERY resistant to "cleaning" on worknights, so all I'm looking for there is to establish the habit of doing SOMETHING cleaning/ decluttering-wise for 10-15 mins. per worknight.

I think that is totally reasonable given your flex time long days schedule. I would encourage you then to look at hot spot firedrills. For you or anyone that's reading that has no idea what I'm talking about, these are 5 min sessions that are designed to clear the areas we all have in our home that become clutter magnets. For my house, that's the kitchen island, the dining room table and the table by my chair. I find it a huge help when I keep those under control. The basic idea is that you spend 5 min dealing with whatever has gathered in that area. It's quick and dirty.

I do much better with this sort of stuff if it's the very first thing I do when I walk in the door. I know a lot of people would want to wind down/change clothes/start dinner whatever but for me, it seems if I can just extend my 'working' mindset for 15 min after I get home, I get a lot of bang for that buck.

Peg

I am very behind on my FlyLady emails...one of those things I hope to improve on in 2006. Anyway, I found this letter to FlyLady from a flybaby in GA today that hit on the issue that Peg brought up about perfectionism getting in our way. I thought I'd share some excerpts:

Dear FlyLady,

I have been FLYing for about 6 months now. I understand what FLYing means. Finally Loving Yourself. FLYing is not having a perfect home. It's not being the perfect homemaker. It's not being the perfect wife and mother. It's not being the perfect cook. As a matter of fact PERFECT has nothing to do with it.
(snip)
I am so glad to finally be free of perfectionism!!!! (Purple Puddles!) I always made good grades, went to college and got a double major in math and chemistry, did well in a job at a major pharmaceutical company. Then my son was born and I decided to stay home with him. I had been so good at so many things - but NOT housework. I would beat myself up. Call myself lazy and stupid. I was my own worse enemy. My daughter was born 20 months after my son. And so did the cycle of depression, self accusation and failure.
(snip)
But as goes a song from the musical Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, "Up from the ashes grow the roses of success." I need to fail - to find out that I wasn't perfect.
(snip)
Sometimes I don't shine my sink at night!! The difference is I don't beat myself up over it anymore. Also I realize that when I DO shine my sink at night it is a way of loving myself because I am not leaving myself a pile of dirty dishes to face first thing in the morning. For me the essential part of establishing routines has been NOT REQUIRING PERFECTION. So I miss a step - big deal! I can always jump right back in!!

A very grateful and so un-perfect FLYbaby in Albany, GA,
Sheri

Did you catch her name? OMG...is that wild or what? Not only does she have the same name as me, but she spells it the same...and THAT is not common at all. Other than her line of work and that she's a wife and mother, that letter could be from me. Wow. Except that I haven't come as far as she has in stopping to allow perfectionism to rule me. But I'm working on it!

quote:

Originally posted by p7eggyc:
What do you want to do during your workdays? Are you looking to just do maintenance stuff (kitchen and hot spot firedrills are what this looks like for me) or do you want to make progress on decluttering/deep cleaning/projects on those days?

I am (and have always been) VERY resistant to "cleaning" on worknights, so all I'm looking for there is to establish the habit of doing SOMETHING cleaning/ decluttering-wise for 10-15 mins. per worknight. After a 10+ hour busy and stressful workday, that's all I can commit to at this point. But I KNOW that just that much will make a WORLD of difference in this little apartment.

I have tried several times (with Denise and Lori's assistance) to establish a mini-flychat habit on worknights and I just don't seem to be able to stay with it. So I'm just looking at getting myself to pick up or swish and swipe or put away clean dishes...just a little something to keep things moving forward so that I'm not always crisis cleaning on weekends or during Monday night's flychat.

quote:

I have my own version of the Flylady Control Journal which is a Word table. It's a grid of rooms in my apt. and recurring household tasks in each room and a block for me to check off and put the day of the week I completed the task. When I want to highlight particular tasks that have more urgency, I circle them. It works pretty well for me but I need to do some tweaking to give myself more blanks for things that are more one-time in nature.

You're way ahead of me on this one. Can never seem to get myself that structured. Way to go!

Here's a question you might not have asked yourself yet or I just am not dialed in. It seems like you are doing pretty well dedicating a portion of your days off to FLYing. What do you want to do during your workdays? Are you looking to just do maintenance stuff (kitchen and hot spot firedrills are what this looks like for me) or do you want to make progress on decluttering/deep cleaning/projects on those days? And in an effort not to assume but at the risk of stating the obvious, it's not necessarily an either/or answer. This is the sort of question I tend to ask myself on a week-by-week basis depending on my schedule. I personally try to set aside at least one night a week that if I make dinner and that's all I do...that's great and I'm the lump in the chair for the remainder of the evening.

Peg

quote:

Originally posted by p7eggyc:
I've also had a lot of luck doing the 'white-knuckle' thing...doing it even when I really, really, really, really don't wanna.

Yep...

quote:

That's a marvelous idea, thank you. And you're right about what I was thinking of forming "only" one habit at a time...CPTA? (Committed Perfectionists Think Alike! hehe) Now I just gotta think about what habits and in what order. Hmmm.

LOLOL! Soooo true. My first reaction to what habits in what order was "Just pick one!!!!!" (Please please hear that with the big ole smile I have on my face) Here's a couple of ideas...follow FLYLady's order or just pick the thing that is bugging you the most right now and do that and don't worry about what you're going to do next or if you should do one before the other or whatever. It's all better than what you are doing now right?

Peg

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by GoingSkiing:
And to treat the Flying like exercise.


Sometimes Flying FEELS like exercise! LOL Like yesterday in the bedroom. Bending, moving furniture, hauling trash, going up and down the ladder to put the drapes back up, etc. But I see what you mean...that makes sense! Thanks.

I've also had a lot of luck doing the 'white-knuckle' thing...doing it even when I really, really, really, really don't wanna.

Peg

quote:

Originally posted by GoingSkiing:
And to treat the Flying like exercise.

Sometimes Flying FEELS like exercise! LOL Like yesterday in the bedroom. Bending, moving furniture, hauling trash, going up and down the ladder to put the drapes back up, etc. But I see what you mean...that makes sense! Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by p7eggyc:
Being disappointed in yourself for being yourself is so defeating in so many ways. I encourage you to let yourself off that hook...I will if you will.

That's a tall order, my friend! I love how you put that, though..."being disappointed in yourself for being yourself"...wow, does that speak volumes! It reminds me a LOT of the overwhelming pile of self-defeating behaviors I weighed myself down with for decades in regard to weight loss and related issues. I've been able to eject a lot of THOSE bad behaviors, so it gives me hope that I can do the same with my household ones.

quote:

Can you take FLYLady's approach and pick one habit a month this year and try to get those habits well established? I think those 12 habits on top of the ones you've established this past year would make it easy for you have a home that makes you smile (love that statement..it's so BYOYL and FLYLady all in one!). I know exactly what's going through your mind...Only one? A month? Surely I can do better than that!? I think really that would be a lot and a wonderful gift for yourself.

That's a marvelous idea, thank you. And you're right about what I was thinking of forming "only" one habit at a time...CPTA? (Committed Perfectionists Think Alike! hehe) Now I just gotta think about what habits and in what order. Hmmm.

quote:

2. I started at some point in the last few years to keep a word document on my work computer that is the next few days to-do list. I print that out on my way out the door and it serves as a cue for what to do when I get home.

I have my own version of the Flylady Control Journal which is a Word table. It's a grid of rooms in my apt. and recurring household tasks in each room and a block for me to check off and put the day of the week I completed the task. When I want to highlight particular tasks that have more urgency, I circle them. It works pretty well for me but I need to do some tweaking to give myself more blanks for things that are more one-time in nature.

quote:

Originally posted by SheriaVa:
[QUOTE]
Thanks, Mel! Two questions for clarification:
1. Are we talking a full-out cleaning of that room each week or just a pass-through to do the obvious stuff. Like, if Tuesday is the bathroom, would you mop the floor, wipe down the tile and scrub the tub as well as "swipe and swish" (as FlyLady would say) the toilet and sink? Or not quite as thorough as that?

2. About how long do you devote to your room-per-evening cleaning/organizing?
I do what is needed in the room at the time. Usually a more thourough cleaning every other time. It's a great way to be flexible to the time you have for that day. A good way to start is keep a list of each room and check it off for the week. If I have more time that night, I do a room that needs a really good scrubbing, if I don't have too much time, I'll do a room that got a good cleaning last week. Starting with a written plan is easiest until you get into it. But I never do less than 1/2 an hour. One thing to remember is that you are only doing one room. If you have items for another room, put them in a pile or container near the door. Then when you are done, take them to the appropriate room to be put away either then or when you do that room. Using that technique, you don't get distracted by leaving the room you are trying to clean. I hope this clarifies...Mel

quote:

Originally posted by SheriaVa:
I'd love to hear from you about some of your favorite or most helpful routines, methods, tips or tricks for keeping a clean and clutter-free home.

1. Empty the dishwasher every AM. And put the dishes in it as they get dirtied.

If the kitchen stays half way together, the rest of the house seems way better. At least, I don't have to go out for fast food.

2. I really don't have a number two... because I haven't been able to add on another routine with any regularity. I have a whole list of things I'm hit and miss, like Never Put Anything Down "Just for Now". The hits are getting better... but I miss enough of the time to get frustrated.

And to treat the Flying like exercise. Sometimes it doesn't get done every day, or something you fall off the wagon and skip a whole week... or even a month... but you can always start up again. I disagree with Flylady, sometimes you ARE behind. But you can sort of catch up...

quote:

Originally posted by Bee:
I often am envious of those who can just "let it go" and have a messy house now and again and not worry that the art stuff is getting everywhere. Unfortuantely, I get anxious if things are too out of place - it's a control thing for me ; )

I have a friend like that. She says that she can't sleep if she doesn't do the dishes after dinner.

I don't think that I want to get to that point...

I'm looking for some kind of balance... I'm almost there... but not yet... hope I recognize it when I get there...

I'll add my kudos to what you have done in the last year. I think the most insidious thing about being a SHE is that we expect these instant, all-encompassing perfect changes. It's nothing more than a facet of our personalities that must be tamed but I'm so guilty of it and it defeats me EVERY SINGLE TIME. Being disappointed in yourself for being yourself is so defeating in so many ways. I encourage you to let yourself off that hook...I will if you will.

That being said, down to more practical suggestions...

1. I KNOW that the answer to this is baby steps. Just like with the healthy living thing, if you try to establish a whole bunch of habits at once, none of them will stick. Can you take FLYLady's approach and pick one habit a month this year and try to get those habits well established? I think those 12 habits on top of the ones you've established this past year would make it easy for you have a home that makes you smile (love that statement..it's so BYOYL and FLYLady all in one!). I know exactly what's going through your mind...Only one? A month? Surely I can do better than that!? I think really that would be a lot and a wonderful gift for yourself.

2. I started at some point in the last few years to keep a word document on my work computer that is the next few days to-do list. I print that out on my way out the door and it serves as a cue for what to do when I get home. You'll find things like dinner/dishes, 15 min on whatever the project of the day is, reminders to do whatever I need to take care of for the night, notes to do the laundry...whatever. It has 4 colums...today and the next 2 days and then the last column is a list of things for the upcoming weekend/next week. Below the table I sort of keep a list of longer term stuff I want to remember. Right now there's a list of major goals, a list of books I would like to read and a list of things to remember about the holidays (like things I would like to do throughout the year...yeah right...but that's what's there! hehe).

Ok, there went my timer...off to practice what I preach.

Peg

quote:

Originally posted by Sandy:
I sometimes lament the fact that I can't get lost in process with myself or dd or DH. I am always on task and aware of the outcome. There is something significant to be said for being able to be less efficeint and more involved in pleasure and process.

I struggle with this too Sandy. DD is just like me and every thing in her room and playroom is where it belongs at the end of the day. I often am envious of those who can just "let it go" and have a messy house now and again and not worry that the art stuff is getting everywhere. Unfortuantely, I get anxious if things are too out of place - it's a control thing for me ; )