FMI, click on http://abcnews.go.com/US/print?id=1164068

After School Band is starting up in the next couple of weeks and I was looking up my school’s stats. I want to make a guess about how many loaner instruments I need to ask for so that I can be prepared and have instruments for every kid.

Here are stats from my school and California.

Parent Education Level (MOST educated parent - the first number is the school I teach at and the second number is the California State Average)

Did not graduate from high school 8% 22%
High school graduate 32% 26%
Some college 29% 23%
College graduate 25% 18%
Graduate school 6% 11%

Students participating in free or reduced-price lunch program 35% 50%
(To qualify for the free/reduced lunch program… a family of four has to make less than $18,000 a year. So a lot of working families are struggling to make ends meet - but are not poor enough for assistance.)

quote:

Originally posted by Lori4squaremom:
I think the key here is EDUCATION! I think that people need to be taught to cook rice from a bag (not a box), and dried beans, and how to cut up whole chickens, or to debone chicken thighs, etc.

I agree that the key is EDUCATION…

The fact 22% of California’s kids have parents who were not able to graduate from HS puts them at TREMENDOUS risk.

I know, personally, that no one could help me with very basic math homework past about 4th grade. When I flunked math in HS… it wasn’t an issue at all, as no one expected me to go to college. No one could comprehend why I would ever need algebra. When I had to drop out of HS at 17... I wasn’t considered “school material” at either home or at school and to go into the work force was considered the smart thing to do. Nelson encouraged me to go to college when I was 28... But catching up on my lack of HS education at community college was a grueling and time consuming task and then to take on another 4 years of college… after 6 years of going to school full time… I still hadn’t graduated… (you don’t need a degree or credential to teach after school band… as it is not part of the regular school curriculum.)

The school district I teach in now has programs for “At Risk” kids. There are tutoring and intervention programs - but they have their problems. I was talking to the Jr. High band teacher about a couple of kids yesterday… some “at risk” kids get an elective, but most of them do not. Most Jr. High kids who are struggling academically spend ALL day on academics and don’t get a chance to participate in choir or woodshop or band. In a way, they are penalized for being behind their classmates. The learn to hate school early on… and they learn that school is something they are not good at.

Only about 2/3 of the kids from the elementary school I teach at graduate from HS… a very small percentage go on to college. Many join the military or get blue collar jobs.

So yeah, I agree that the key is EDUCATION… but I’m not sure that the answer is classes on de-boning chickens…

quote:

Originally posted by Lori4squaremom:

quote:

Originally posted by Bee:

quote:

Originally posted by skedwards:
I do know that our County Extention Service has held classes such as learning to make your buck go farther at the grocery store, nutrition classes and so on AT TIMES.

Our community hospital hosts those types of programs weekly in my area. They are completely free and people are welcomed (and even encouraged) to bring their children. Even our local market sponsors free nutrition and cooking classes from time to time.

Bee,

I was going to suggest the EXACT same thing. Our local hospitals, our local Parks and Rec center, our local schools, and our local super markets in conjunction with local chefs ALL host these types of FREE classes. The problem is, they are having to cut them due to LOW ATTENDANCE! The county I live in is the 2nd poorest county in California (the county that we previously lived in was THE poorest).

Also, I am a firm believer in helping others not at a government level, but at a personal level. I have held MANY breadmaking classes in my home, I have taught countless women how to debone a chicken, how to make a meal for $3 to serve 12, etc, etc, the list goes on. I am sure that everyone one of us have stories like this where we have taken someone under our wings and taught them....if you haven't, I would strongly encourage you to do it! It is incredibly rewarding!

I have two young ladies that call me on a regular basis "How do you do this?" How do you do that? I only have $10 and __________ in the fridge to get through the next 6 days, what should I buy, and what should I make?" I'm sure we ALL have these situations, if we don't, look for them. I really do believe that this education doesn't HAVE to come from the government, it would be nice if it came from parenting classes, etc that go through the public school systems, but it doesn't have to! There are millions of us out there that can teach one or two, and those one or two can teach one or two, and those....well, you get the point. This education doesn't have to come from yet another government program. It can happen in your own kitchens.

Lori,

While I think what you are doing is very worth while, and I think that it helps in some situations. That is one of the reasons I go on mission trips to Honduras. Where we go, the people in the village are required to help us build their room additions, put on roofs, build latrines, etc. They have to help so that they will learn.

However, I think that there is also a big huge difference between rural poverty and urban poverty. You can teach someone who lives in the country to grow a garden and can and freeze vegetables. You probably don't feel unsafe goig to their home or inviting them into yours. However, very few people are willing to risk their lives by going into urban housing projects to teach people how to bake bread.

I think that Denise was trying to make a similar point earlier too. Being poor while in college or graduate school, or when you were right out of college is a completely different sort of poverty than institutionalized poverty that may go back for generations.

Growing up in middle class or even working class homes already gives someone a skill set much beyond someone that has grown up in sheer poverty.

Dawn

Our county extention and hospital have the same kinds of programs that you are all describing. The hospital charges $150 for an 8 week course, very affordable for a family with limited income NOT! But but county extention course if free, and probably three people show up every quarter. It's sad, but the times are not convenient for the people who need to be there, nor is the information what they need to know. I thought this would be a viable alternative for me when I was diagnosed with diabetes...nutrition education...NOT! Somehow we are missing the boat with the education. One of our local grocery stores has hired a nutrtionist, and she is there to help with food questions while you are shopping, that's pretty neat....yet is it used?

Jen, as far as running for office, no thank you, I'm a bit too honest for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee:

quote:

Originally posted by skedwards:
I do know that our County Extention Service has held classes such as learning to make your buck go farther at the grocery store, nutrition classes and so on AT TIMES.

Our community hospital hosts those types of programs weekly in my area. They are completely free and people are welcomed (and even encouraged) to bring their children. Even our local market sponsors free nutrition and cooking classes from time to time.

Bee,

I was going to suggest the EXACT same thing. Our local hospitals, our local Parks and Rec center, our local schools, and our local super markets in conjunction with local chefs ALL host these types of FREE classes. The problem is, they are having to cut them due to LOW ATTENDANCE! The county I live in is the 2nd poorest county in California (the county that we previously lived in was THE poorest).

Also, I am a firm believer in helping others not at a government level, but at a personal level. I have held MANY breadmaking classes in my home, I have taught countless women how to debone a chicken, how to make a meal for $3 to serve 12, etc, etc, the list goes on. I am sure that everyone one of us have stories like this where we have taken someone under our wings and taught them....if you haven't, I would strongly encourage you to do it! It is incredibly rewarding!

I have two young ladies that call me on a regular basis "How do you do this?" How do you do that? I only have $10 and __________ in the fridge to get through the next 6 days, what should I buy, and what should I make?" I'm sure we ALL have these situations, if we don't, look for them. I really do believe that this education doesn't HAVE to come from the government, it would be nice if it came from parenting classes, etc that go through the public school systems, but it doesn't have to! There are millions of us out there that can teach one or two, and those one or two can teach one or two, and those....well, you get the point. This education doesn't have to come from yet another government program. It can happen in your own kitchens.

quote:

Originally posted by cobismom:
Can it be done, yes? Can we have a healthier country? YES Do we want to cut out the bias' and barriers to helping the people who really need the help and pay for programs like this....weeeeellll. There is the rub....

We all have great ideas, how about sharing them with the people we elected to take care of these issues, senators, representatives, state senators, representatives, governors, president...willing to stick your name on a great idea? I am, are you?

Cathy, have you ever considered running for office? I'd vote for you.

My CSA had an article written about it, and they had photocopies. They actually do a lot of work towards feeding the poor in Hartford, I am definitely signing up again next year. They have shares for elderly people on a limited budget who live in one complex, for example.

The article also talks about the fact that the lower-income families are just, if not more, likely to spend money buying organic produce, and yet most organic markets tend to focus on the high-end consumer. The article is in Orion magazine, but the article is not on the website.

Maybe one answer would be to put pressure on Whole Foods or Wild Oats to come up with a chain that would market in low-income neighborhoods, with mostly bulk, produce, and meats.

The other CSA I belong to, which is an urban CSA, using greenhouses mostly, lets families use their food stamps to buy produce. When I was there yesterday, it was packed with families looking for healthy foods.

quote:

Originally posted by skedwards:
I do know that our County Extention Service has held classes such as learning to make your buck go farther at the grocery store, nutrition classes and so on AT TIMES.

Our community hospital hosts those types of programs weekly in my area. They are completely free and people are welcomed (and even encouraged) to bring their children. Even our local market sponsors free nutrition and cooking classes from time to time.

Without getting in too deep with some of the concerns and issues here, I do know that our County Extention Service has held classes such as learning to make your buck go farther at the grocery store, nutrition classes and so on AT TIMES. Probably if more people would contact them about holding more classes or seminars or having more literature available, they would do what they could to do this.

Now you still run into all the issues that cobismom listed like who will pay for a babysitter for the parents, letting everyone who would need this education know about it and so on. More than likely the people who would request classes such as these aren't the people who need them the most.

It would be somewhere to start though.

You are all correct. Time, parent's at home, not a second job, school lunches that don't include lots of fruits and vegetables, education, etc. They are all answers. Like Lori, I have experience, very personal experience here. We lived like that for many, many years when my kids were little. Some days if feels as if we are still there.

Education would be wonderful, who is going to teach what parents to debone a chicken? Who is going to pay that person? How will you know that those parents who need to be there are there for the lessons? Let's not look at the parents who don't care, let's look at the parents who do care. And whose going to pay for the babysitter so that they can come to a class to learn about healthy nutrition? Where are you going to hold these classes? Whose going to pick the curriculum? Do you withhold their food stamps if they don't attend and risk the kids not eating at all? So many questions and no answers without getting purely political, which is what got me in trouble last time we talked about an issue like this one.

We can sit here and say "I did it, so can they"...whoever made it on $100 a month was an exception to the rule....not the norm. No kids, no spouse or SO, maybe. My son spends $75 on himself, and he eats very healthy, but he's not buying 8 gallons of milk every three weeks either for four kids.

Can it be done, yes? Can we have a healthier country? YES Do we want to cut out the bias' and barriers to helping the people who really need the help and pay for programs like this....weeeeellll. There is the rub....

We all have great ideas, how about sharing them with the people we elected to take care of these issues, senators, representatives, state senators, representatives, governors, president...willing to stick your name on a great idea? I am, are you?

quote:

Originally posted by Matanca:
I believe it would be extremely difficult to dig yourself out of the hole of depression and deal with those issues. Either you are spending all your time fighting to survive or are "escaping" every chance you get.

Yep. Not to minimize anybody's experience... but I think that it is very different to experience a few years of a very tight budget (ie while in college or just starting out on your own or during a job layoff) vs. the experience of a lifetime of unrelenting, grinding poverty.

I didn’t grow up in poverty. Things were often “tight” and we were not rich, but we always had “enough” or more.

And in my twenties… I sometimes needed to work two low paying jobs to make ends meet - but I was single and it was do-able.

I also ALWAYS dated men more educated and better employed than I was and I was fairly confident that I would marry into a easier life. Which is what happened. I don’t know what it would be like to be in poverty, with a family, and see no way out.

quote:

Originally posted by MaryJo:
I spent my years in Tennessee trying to encourage self esteem and pride...if a group of people have little value of their own selves, you could give them all the information but what they do with it is still up to them. We have been blessed.

I've been thinking about all the personal issues we here on the board deal with everyday. I believe it would be extremely difficult to dig yourself out of the hole of depression and deal with those issues. Either you are spending all your time fighting to survive or are "escaping" every chance you get. The mental and emotional things are what keep alot of people in a situation like that. Education, in all forms, seems the only long lasting solution.

Heather

Reading everyone's responses made me recall my single days living on my own in the late '70's.

I also stuck to an amazingly low budget (can't recall the actual $$ amount) by: 1) scouting for sale prices and stocking up when I could, and 2) never, and I mean NEVER, buying junk food esp. things sold in vending machines (the most expensive way they come). Filling up on potatoes instead of some processed, pre-packaged or fast food helped too. I am just thankful I don't have to exist on that kind of budget now, and that I don't have to raise a family that way.

Denise, I hear you: how much is our government spending on the war in Iraq, that could be so much better utilized?

As a graduate student, I lived on less than $10k a year. My food budget (which included groceries, eating out and other items from the grocery like TP) was $100/mo. I couldn't afford junk food or prepackaged items. I typically don't like to eat sandwiches, so I would sometimes go to 3 different grocery stores to get the best deals on meat, dairy products and produce. I definitely recognize that making 3 stops to save a few dollars isn't a fun option when children are involved, but it was something I realized I had to do. Some weeks I only made one stop, but I didn't always get everything that was on my list.

I ate well on $100/month. Granted, I was just feeding myself and occasionally a friend who came over for dinner, but I even managed to get 5 fruit and veggie servings in a day (on days I tried) and I usually ate out once a week. I bought what was in season and tried to get it on sale. When I was able to stock up, I would re-pack and freeze chicken breasts or hamburger in individual servings, but I didn't eat much meat in grad school. My mom always worried about that, but I made sure I worked other sources of protein into my diet (like peanut butter and banana smoothies). I ate a lot of homemade soup too so a little meat would go farther.

I had one huge help in my corner...a lot of experience with budgeting money, using coupons and saying "no" to things I didn't need or could wait to buy. My mom was amazing at raising two children on a teacher's salary and (not enough) child support, and she taught me well. So that, along with the fact that she's a home ec teacher who tries to encourage making healthy and informed choices, was a bonus for me. A lot of people aren't lucky enough to have the knowledge on how to make healthy decisions or how to educate themselves about what healthy choices are. I worked at a grocery store in college and was always sad to see families paying for cases of soda, chips, snack cakes and sugary cereal with food stamps. Not everyone did that, but those that did were difficult to watch. WIC is a different (and in my opinion more helpful) program altogether b/c it incorporates education about healthy and budget friendly choices.

I'll hop off my soapbox now

Jen

I also think that the whole point of the article is getting everyone the healthiest possible diet.

I know that for years, I didn't have money to eat fast food and I ate healthier than many people. But I didn't have money to buy two servings of dairy a day or 5 servings of fruits and vegs a day.

Chicken and potatos and oatmeal and bread and peanut butter and jelly and pasta was a healthier diet than fast food or boxed Mac & Cheese but it wasn't the BEST possible diet and didn't meet the standards of the food pyramid.

I appreciate people's sharing. I am always touched when people speak from their own experiences. Lori, thanks for posting. I am glad you did.
I too find the cuts depressing and maddening. I hate the flow of money these days.

quote:

Originally posted by SheriaVa:
...many social programs (that can often help the poor afford better/more food) are going to get budgets cut in order to help pay for Katrina.

School lunch (one of my agency's programs) is going to get cut back by raising the poverty threshold for people to qualify their kids for free school lunches.

That is so depressing.

I can't help but think of the $$$ going to the war in Iraq... but I'm in a very blue part of a blue state...

When I lived in a seedy part of San Francisco... the nearest grocery store was about 8 blocks away. Nobody had a car and public transportation didn’t exactly go from my house to the store.

Just the logistics of bringing groceries home was a BIG challenge. I could not buy the largest or most economical size of beans or rice or milk or any item. I NEVER made home-made muffins or pancakes because it was not possible to bring a 5 lb sack of flour and all the other groceries (not to mention TP and laundry soap and all the other things a person buys at the store) home.

I had to make several trips to the store a week for this reason. (So much for that romantic-ized view of the “French Women Don’t get Fat” lifestyle.) That was pretty much my after work activity - grocery shopping.

During the winter, I found myself walking thru my crappy (and scary) neighborhood in the dark with bags of groceries. During rainy times, I had to grocery shop based on what could get wet and still be ok.

I was a single person. I can’t even imagine doing this with a baby or toddler. I was young and healthy. I can’t imagine living like this with health issues.

The local mom and pop grocery stores (which were closer) often charged 2-3 times what a grocery store did and didn’t have much selection - sometimes a box of macaroni and cheese was one of the most affordable and healthiest items… and it is pretty easy to get home. A piece of fruit could cost $1-2, depending on the fruit and the season. It wasn’t price gauging… they had high rents, like the rest of us.

Every person who is struggling has a different circumstance… there isn’t a one size fits all solution.

quote:

Originally posted by MaryJo:
PS to Lori, Did you ever get the card I sent?

Mary Jo,

Yes, I did! Thank you so much! I was hoping that one of the other ladies would pass on to you that I had gotten it, as I don't have your email address Thank you thank you thank you!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Lori4squaremom:
Folks, I have really really agonized over posting in this thread, so as not to bring offense to anyone, but I was strongly encouraged to post my own personal experience on this topic by a couple of the ladies that we flychat with. So, that's what I'm doing. I'm just sharing my own personal experiences.

I wasn't at all offended, just offering another viewpoint. Your ability to be resourceful is definitely impressive.