I thought this article was fascinating:
New Yorkers Suffering Calorie Sticker Shock

It's particularly interesting that people are saying "I wish they hadn't done this" or "I'd rather not know." They're not putting any pressure on the restaurants to clean up their dishes or offer more low calorie options. Instead, they're desperate to put their heads back in the sand.

I'm interested in your reactions.

quote:

Originally posted by Coaster Girl:
Since I always get straight oil & vinegar as my dressing & no cheese, I figured I would put away about 500 calories for just the chicken & veggies, plus another 50-100 for the two pecans, 6 mandarin orange segments, and 5 dried cranberries that show up with it.

This would be my guess:
½ TBS oil 60 cals
Vinegar 0
Vegs (I'm guessing lettuce, tomatoes, cucs, carrots?) 75
6 oz chicken 300
.75 oz pecans 150
Oil chicken is cooked in 120
1/4 cup mandarin slices 45
2 TBS cranberries 50

My best guess quickie total: 800

* * * *
If you got it straight off the menu:
Full fat dressing 300
1.5 oz cheese 150
Croutons 200

Total: 1390

quote:

I'd rather not have to deal with hidden calories.

You have to count the fat the food is cooked in. I don't think of it as "hidden calories". It is just a reality. Chefs use oil/butter/grease to cook with. It isn't their fault that the food soaks it up and we can't see it. But nobody is standing in a commercial kitchen holding a 1/2 tsp measuring spoon for the oil. You just have to add in 2-4 TBS of oil into everything that you eat.

quote:

Out of curiosity... how many calories did you think the salad was?

Since I always get straight oil & vinegar as my dressing & no cheese, I figured I would put away about 500 calories for just the chicken & veggies, plus another 50-100 for the two pecans, 6 mandarin orange segments, and 5 dried cranberries that show up with it.

Cathy, I'm totally impressed. I'd happily pay a little bit extra to have that information at all my local restaurants.

I know what Denise means about already knowing about a Starbucks muffin's calories, but sometimes I just make better choices if I SEE in print that I what I was thinking about eating 700-1000 calories. That's why I still count calories after all these years.

I knew ahead of time that I was going to Ruby Tuesday's back in January, but was floored that even my 'best' choice was still far more calories than I wanted to consume for my meal. I'd rather not have to deal with hidden calories.

quote:

Originally posted by cobismom:
I am looking at this very realistically. We hired a nutritionist to figure calorie counts on our new menus.

That is interesting. Did you do this hoping to attract a new customer base? Did it work? Are people in sticker shock? Are people ordering the least calorific things on the menu?

I am looking at this very realistically. We hired a nutritionist to figure calorie counts on our new menus. She cost us almost $4000 to do the all three menus. We have available the calorie counts, the nutritional information for the breakfast, noon and dinner menus. It wasn't money we had, we had to make some changes. But, we were ready and willing to do that. NOT too many mom and pop places can afford to do that; and you will see your prices go up. Are you willing to pay for that expense? With the cost of food being shipped in going up, and the cost of preparation and employees going up, eventually this trickles down to you and I.

Most people can tell that their food is healthy or not. A piece of meat with seven sauces on it, and potatoes with cheese and sauce on it, a salad drenched in dressing and a huge portion of dessert is not going to come without calories. Most people don't want to know the exact count, just that it's a good meal and there is plenty of it. Americans want more for their money, especially when eating out.
Most of the comments we got when we cut portions back to European portions or proper portions were that there wasn't enough food for the money. That's why buffets are so popular with people.

So it's a darned if you do, and darned if you don't thing. If you practice healthy eating habits, and not gourge yourself because you are eating out, you can eat out and do itin a healthy manner.

I also don't want to see that information in every restaurant I'm in. And like Peggy and Denise said, it is not denial. I know when I order a breakfast sandwich from Dunkin Donuts it is more than likely 50% or more of my days calories. When I go out to a favorite restaurant (and none of my favs are chains) I don't want that calorie number bouncing around in my head the whole time I'm eating. I think it would cause me to lose enjoyment of my favorite dishes. And that's not denial-it's a choice I am making, be it a good choice, or a not-so-good choice.

I'm not so sure I'd pay attention to those numbers either. I rarely go to any chains anymore, but on the rare occasion we go to Applebee's, I never order anything off their WW menu. Because I am not going to eat something that does not really appeal to me just because it is low-fat/low-cal.

We try, of course, to eat at home more often. When we do go out, we have 2 or 3 locally owned/non-chain restaurants that we love. Like Brie said, when you become a "regular" and know the owners/chefs, it is easier to ask for specifics. And having worked in several restaurants, I can't imagine you could ever say "this dish has X number of calories" because it is not prepared exactly the same each time. No one is back there weighing and measuring each ingredient.

Jill

Not to mention... but I've worked in my fair share of restaurant kitchens with hung over jerks. I've gone in and asked for special requests like an omlette cooked with no oil or whatever... and had the line cook say, "F--- the fat bitch" and cook it the way he is going to cook it.

Maybe things have changed... but I'm not that optimistic since I've just given up on getting a burger with mayo on the side. I tried 3-4 times at different restaurants... and never got it right.

A LOT of places... the chef is going to be forced to figure out the calorie counts and is going to say, "I don't have time for this BS... F--- it" and just totally make up a calorie number.

What city has the funds to police this?

quote:

Originally posted by p7eggyc:
The 1300 calorie salad is NOT worse nutritionally (in pretty much any way I can think of honestly) than the 1290 calorie burger and fries. Only higher in calories.

I thought that same thing. Even healthy food that people need has calories.

I can't tell you how many people I know that don't eat fruit because "it is too high in calories"... and gladly spend those calories on less nutritious foods.

quote:

Originally posted by Brie:
I too would love the calorie information to be made public for ALL restaurants, not just chains.

I would not want this. I don't want that info staring at me every time I go out for a nice meal.

We don't have special meals out all that often... It is bad enough looking at the prices... I don't need the calories and fat grams, too.

If people are in such denial that they can't figure out that everything on the Fridays or Applebee’s menus are 1000-2000 calories... I don't feel very sorry for them.

Not to mention... I've seen the TOTALLY inaccurate calorie counts that people come up with. No offense to anybody in the restaurant industry... either in the past or present... but restaurant staff are generally NOT scientists nor are they food researchers nor are they registered dieticians.

Shoot... people have already proven that most of the items with calories posted have wrong numbers listed anyway. And these are multimillion dollar corporations with the funding to have somebody figure out the calories.

I really don't need a menu with the wrong calories posted on it, which is already happening now… and would just be worse when your typical Wendy Waitress is supposed to figure out the calories for the special of the day.

Also... I REALLY think that people are going to make up the calories in other places. They are going to take larger servings at home. There is already something called "the Subway Paradox". When people eat at Subway, they think that they are eating healthier and fewer calories... so then they treat themselves because they have been so "good" and eat MORE calories.

I can really see this whole experiment backfiring and people eating MORE calories, not less.

But I have very little sympathy for people in denial. They'll just figure out some other way to stay in denial, that's all.

There is no way to save people from themselves. They don't WANT to be saved... so let them be overweight. I truly believe that the whole tactic will backfire.

And personally, I don’t care. I’ve known for YEARS that a muffin from Starbucks is 600 calories. Doesn’t take a PhD in food nutrition to figure out that a muffin the size of my head is 600 calories. But I’d rather not go out for a nice restaurant and have to look at the calories printed on the menu (which are probably not even accurate anyway, and thus is useless information).

I have to admit I do not want calorie count on every thing, every where. I have struck what feels like a nice balance and frankly, this would probably spoil eating out for me. It's not that I'm ignorant, I just am making choices but I don't need the choice shoved down my throat. I've never chosen to accurately count/track calories.

I wish we could find a way to educate people differently. I understand where the need for educating comes from though and suppose I'd eat even better if faced with calorie counts all the time. Personally though, I think if you're going to do it, only exposing calories is too narrow. Might as well get the sodium, fat and fiber counts on there too if you really are trying to educate. The 1300 calorie salad is NOT worse nutritionally (in pretty much any way I can think of honestly) than the 1290 calorie burger and fries. Only higher in calories. If you're going to educate people, give them all the info. It would be almost better if we taught the whole world about WW points. At least you get credit for fiber and healthier fats.

Peg

My experience in France was that the portions are WAY smaller than in the states. The plates themselves were smaller as well. I also saw many, many people just having plain green salads for their meals with some nice bread.

Having a walking culture helps as well.

****

I too would love the calorie information to be made public for ALL restaurants, not just chains.

The only thing I bank on when eating organic out, is that it doesn't have any pesticides, hormones or other cr*p that I don't want to put into my body. Calories don't change because something is grown or raised organically.

***

The one thing that I do like about eating locally is that being in a small town, we're now friends with the owners. I like supporting my friends' business ventures but I also know that I won't have any trouble having any of my special requests made. It makes it easier to eat out when I know that my salad isn't pre-mixed and I can order it the way I want without meat, croutons, cheese or other high calorie items (and dressing on the side of course ; )

I've also noticed that people tend to believe that the food at "their" locally owned bakery or restaurant is less calories than fast food or chain restaurants. People want to believe that better quality food or organic food is healthier... thus they can eat more of it... or the calories are "better" or "naturally" fewer calories. They also tend to believe that the food is less greasy.

I personally, don't believe all of this... and a burger has the same calories when you eat it out. It is only less if you make it at home and weigh the meat and cheese and use reduced calorie mayo, etc. Actually, if the restaurant around the corner uses Paula Deen's recipe... the meat may be stuffed with butter... and the non-fast-food burger may be MORE calories.

If I read the article correctly... the calorie thing only applies to fast food and chains?

One way to put your head back in the sand is to switch from Pizza Hut to the pizza place on the corner. It is the same calories, or more... but people can fool themselves because it is "home cooked" or "fresh ingredients".

quote:

Originally posted by GoingSkiing:

quote:

Originally posted by cate:
No-one knows in France, and yet there are the majority of slim people here. (must be all the walking!).

I haven't been there... but I'm guessing that the portion sizes are smaller than in the States.

Cigarettes raise your metabolism by about 100 calories a day. Ditto coffee. Coffee raises your metabolism by about 100 calories.

"Better" metabolisms... and smaller portions... and more walking = thinner people.

Yep, most of the French are coffee and cigarette fiends. I had girls in class that started smoking just to stay thin, or didnt' want to quit because they didn't want to ruin their figures.

Portion sizes are much smaller. The French in general don't seem to have as many "hang ups" with food as Americans do. They eat what they want, they thoroughly enjoy it, but they really don't overindulge, because they don't seemed to be cursed with the "good" food, "bad" food thing. To them, "good food" is food that tastes good and "bad food" is food that tastes bad. There's no "moralality" for lack of a better word associated with it.

Dawn

quote:

Originally posted by cate:
No-one knows in France, and yet there are the majority of slim people here. (must be all the walking!).

I haven't been there... but I'm guessing that the portion sizes are smaller than in the States.

Cigarettes raise your metabolism by about 100 calories a day. Ditto coffee. Coffee raises your metabolism by about 100 calories.

"Better" metabolisms... and smaller portions... and more walking = thinner people.

quote:

Originally posted by Coaster Girl:
Had I not read this article, I'd have never guessed that one of my favorite salads when eating out is over 1000 calories.

That is pretty much why I only eat out once a week.

Out of curiosity... how many calories did you think the salad was?

I got into a discussion about this on another site. I'm glad that they're doing this, I wish this was happening here in Ohio. I'd rather know what I'm looking at calorie-wise before I eat.

I'm OC enough to carry a calorie book with me at all times, but for the life of me, half of the stuff I'd want to eat are not listed in this book. Had I not read this article, I'd have never guessed that one of my favorite salads when eating out is over 1000 calories. I was really shocked (and really glad I at least have them leave off the cheese & put the salad dressing on the side). Sheesh!

And quite frankly, I'm getting to the point where I don't want to have to run off all these calories anymore.

No-one knows in France, and yet there are the majority of slim people here. (must be all the walking!).

I think a sense of what your eating is always good, if you go by calories or something else (portion size, etc). I have noticed that women here tend to be slimmer than in the states.

(oh, funny thing...just putting it in this post, and then signing off..my apartment is down the street from a bar called "The Highlander"...I keep looking for Duncan Macleod)

I think that people will do whatever that they are going to do to keep there heads in the sand.

I think that I've had a pretty realistic guestimate of restaurant calories. This is me... but I still find it shocking that in 2008... intelligent, well educated people/women can go out to eat and come back and post that they think that it was 375 calories.

Doesn't matter what they had... it always adds up to 350-400 calories. "Was more than I usually have at home... and dinner at home is usually 300 calories... so I'll guess this was 400 calories, at the most".

Yeah... the three bites of dessert that they shared with a friend was 375 calories.

I could see how it could be sticker shock.

It also makes me think of the post that Brie posted a while back... that the muffin labeled 600 calories MIGHT be 700 calories.

Or I know that I've weighed an order of small fries from McDonalds and a slice of Pizza Hut pizza on a food scale and they were both significantly more grams than what was posted on the websites... like 30% more.

Maybe things like muffins... they might be close to a standard size...

But they might even have much WORSE sticker shock to know that the menu at Applebees says that an order of ribs is 2,000 calories... but it is really 2,500.

I wonder if people will make up the calories at home and think, "I was good today... I used to get a 1700 calorie lunch. Now I don't any more... so I can eat a giant bowl of ice cream after dinner."

I think it's GREAT to have calorie info right there in the open!!!

I would love for that to happen in Ohio.

The whole not wanting to know thing is what gets people into trouble with their waist lines.