Excuse me in advance, but this is going to be long.

I just came home from having dinner with an old friend who was in town for her high school reunion. She lives on the West Coast so I hadn't seen her in years, but we had a great talk tonight. To give you some background, she was a psychology major in college who has worked in some measure of the psychiatric field since college (she's currently working as an advocate for children in the court system when they are in abuse/neglect situations).

When the restaurant closed at 9 p.m., we headed to the parking lot with the intention of going our separate ways. Instead, we stood at the midpoint between our two cars and continued talking. We had talked earlier about my weight loss and how it was a continuing challenge for me. In the parking lot, we got to talking about my wanting to be a homeowner and that led us into the incredibly high cost of living here and she was talking about families she deals with in her work that are living in poverty. I said that I made $5,000 a year when I came to DC in 1971 and I related that story I've told here about standing on the street, smelling food smells from Roy Rogers, and saying to my roommate "I wonder if we'll ever be able to afford to eat there." I said...can you imagine that? I was talking about how much my standard of living has changed since then.

She had this look on her face and I can tell something I said has clicked with her. She said "Have you ever considered that your relationship with food is due to food being your measure of success?" THUD. I was like "HUH?" She said "When you were 18, standing on that street corner smelling Roy Rogers food but not being able to afford it, you equated success with burgers and fries. Have you ever considered that perhaps you still equate success with food and that's why you struggle with letting go of certain types of food?" I was dumbfounded. After all the soul searching and gut exploring we have done on this board in the past 2 years, I don't think THAT one has EVER come up! LOL The first thing I said to her was "No, I never even THOUGHT of food in that way." but the second thing I said was "OOh! I have to post this on the board when I get home!" LOL

So...I just got home and it will take me a while to mull this over and think it all out, but I wanted to get it out while it was fresh in my mind. I'm just curious whether anyone has ever thought of equating food with success.

I do wonder about these people who are doing some kind of mental cash register on other people's food purchases. Any food you buy and prepare at home is a bargain compared to going out to eat. I can make a fancy meal at home for two and it's much less than the cost of the appetizer would be at a restaurant.

I buy bottled water for convenience when I'm out but drink filtered tap water at home. I have a Brita pitcher. Our water has a bad taste without it but the filter really works.

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...as extravagant...

Our city has perfectly wonderful tap water, from deep wells, but many people still insist on buying bottled water. What a waste, in more ways than one.

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Originally posted by GoingSkiing:

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Originally posted by Sandy:
We could afford fresh figs an she couldn't. They became larger than life- sort of a dividing line and a focal point.

Nobody ever assumed that we were rich when I was buying chips and cookies and tons of fast food every week. No one ever said, “Wow… you ate fast food ALL weekend… you must be rich!”

Now, if I buy salmon or some other “expensive” food… people will jump to the conclusion that we have money to burn… but I spend MUCH less on food now than when we were eating all kinds of junk food and fast food.

My sister spends about $200- 250 per month eating out. She sees that as normal, but the figs that cost $5 as extravagant. I would guess that we spend $50-$80 per month eating out. She also keeps her house stocked with soda and I buy a 6 pack a month-or less.
I used to see a package of chips on sale for $2 as a bargain, now I sort of see it as a waste of money and calories. I guess that perceptions change with time and experience.

I was asking my mom about how her family ate in the past. (Actually, my mom’s past is kind of complicated as my mom’s mother died in childbirth and she lived with her grandmother until she died and then lived with her aunt and uncle for a year and then moved to CA (ate age 13) and lived with her dad (whom she had only met twice) and step-mom.) My mom’s half siblings were very overweight, but my mom was very thin.

Her step-mother was VERY proud that they could afford to feed each person a half a chicken. Even my aunt at age 4 was served a half a chicken and my step-grandmother would say, “The Fugazi’s down the street have more money than we do… but we eat better than they do.” My mom said that the Fugazi’s were farmers and served “normal” portions… a chicken leg or thigh or breast.

(My mom seems to remember that she was excempt from the forced half chicken portions... probably because she was a teen when she moved in with her dad's family...)

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Originally posted by Sandy:
Not sure if this relates, but thought about it after reading the post.
I have a thing with fresh berries. I think that they are too expensive and that when I am better off financially we will buy them. I force myself to buy them now.

I had an a-ha moment like this about a year+ ago. Ds asked for a fresh pineapple. It was perfectly ripe and smelled soooo good, but I said “no” because it was $5. And then I remembered the many, MANY fast food dinners and lunches that I had bought which had cost WAY more than $5 or chips and dip that cost more than $5 or a couple of packages of cookies which totaled more than $5. I didn’t even think twice about plunking down $5 for all kinds of junk food in the past.

I went ahead bought the pineapple.

Since then I’ve bought all kinds of amazing fruit vegetables. I bought a cherimoya for the first time last winter… it was $5 for something a little bigger than an avocado….

I buy fresh figs when they are in season, too.

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Originally posted by Sandy:
We could afford fresh figs an she couldn't. They became larger than life- sort of a dividing line and a focal point.

Nobody ever assumed that we were rich when I was buying chips and cookies and tons of fast food every week. No one ever said, “Wow… you ate fast food ALL weekend… you must be rich!”

Now, if I buy salmon or some other “expensive” food… people will jump to the conclusion that we have money to burn… but I spend MUCH less on food now than when we were eating all kinds of junk food and fast food.

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Originally posted by SheriaVa:
...in June 1971, burgers and fries meant success to me because I was poor. But I'm not fully feeling it as a reason for my CURRENT food issues yet. More thought is necessary!

I don’t think that there is ever just ONE reason why we are overweight… and I agree… the reasons change from year to year…

I know that I had about 47 reasons that I gained weight and I’m sure that $$$ and “Food as a measure of success” might be a factor in there somewhere… I am a product of the American culture… and cars, hair color, and a lot of fattening foods (premium ice creams such as B&J’s or Haagen Dazs or Pepperidge Farm Cookies) are marketed as “You deserve this” or “You’ve arrived” when you are sophisticated or wealthy enough or PC enough (in the case of B&J’s) to buy our product.

But there are LOTS of reasons why I like to eat, or what I like to eat, or when I want to eat.

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Originally posted by Sandy:
I can honestly say that I have not done this. I have thought about it many times as it is an automatic response that comes up in me. But I have made a huge point not to do it. I offer trips to Boulders Climbing Gym, time for a board game and other stuff. We have a "reward list" that dd made herself. When she reaches a goal or does well with something, she usually brings up a reward.

I don't reward with food either. Cori's reward of choice right now are stickers, special craft projects or outings to the zoo (we're members so it's free).

I absolutely love the idea of letting her create a reward list as she gets older. Thanks for the sharing that idea Sandy.

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Originally posted by SheriaVa:

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Originally posted by mountaingirl:
I had a dream that all of us here were actually together on a KD cruise, what a riot! So, Kathleen, when does the ship leave?

WOOHOO! A KD cruise...I'm ready!

I'm in too. The company sounds great!

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Originally posted by mountaingirl:
I had a dream that all of us here were actually together on a KD cruise, what a riot! So, Kathleen, when does the ship leave?

WOOHOO! A KD cruise...I'm ready!

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Congrats on your lightbulb moment. I just love those

Well it was HER lightbulb moment but it gave me something to think about!

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Now that a day has passed, how is the thought of that gelling for you?

Not really gelling for me yet. I can understand the concept...I can understand that, in June 1971, burgers and fries meant success to me because I was poor. But I'm not fully feeling it as a reason for my CURRENT food issues yet. More thought is necessary!

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Originally posted by cobismom:
Or how often do we give our children snacks or treats for good grades, don't lie I'll bet those with kids have all done it.

I can honestly say that I have not done this. I have thought about it many times as it is an automatic response that comes up in me. But I have made a huge point not to do it. I offer trips to Boulders Climbing Gym, time for a board game and other stuff. We have a "reward list" that dd made herself. When she reaches a goal or does well with something, she usually brings up a reward. We all talk and decide on one. This helps curb my automatic "food reward" response.
(It helps too that dd goes to a Montessori School where they don't get grades!)

In colonial days (and before) food was very much a measure of success.
There were foods that only the very wealthy could afford.
And it is not just here that this happens. It is world wide and spans all economic levels.
The very very wealthy are always trying to outdo each other.

People who come to my office will often say that, and all of the sudden it clicks with me...they will say, "when we get off of food stamps, we'll go out and have a big steak dinner" Or how often do we give our children snacks or treats for good grades, don't lie I'll bet those with kids have all done it. Being successful in this country means you can afford to feed yourself or your family "better" food.

I try very hard not to reward myself with food rewards. I think of them first, though, I have to admit. When I get to 20% off, I will have a moolate' from DQ....no when I get to 20% i will get a top that looks good on me. Not one that hangs on me like a sheet. For some people it's the BMW for others it's food.

Good thoughts Sheri! Thanks for sharing.

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She had this look on her face and I can tell something I said has clicked with her. She said "Have you ever considered that your relationship with food is due to food being your measure of success?" THUD. I was like "HUH

That's mainly my reason for weight gain (and stress)..I ate out 3 times a day for approximately 6-8 yrs..I had no time to cook and it was some very stressful years..

But know I am paying for it..and having a very difficult time losing it. I am usually good for about 3 weeks and then I got off of it.
HAAAAAAA..I very fustrated ..I ate 3 chocolate bars this weekend..I was to lazy to go shopping, so we've been eating take out..

I need a good kick to get back on track.

Sheri,

I hate to say it this way, but this is food for thought. I'm having one of those moments where I know that you've struck a chord in me, but I don't know which one. I will be thinking about this today.

Bill

I have always believed that. My parents were children of the depression. They were extremely poor and from large families, immigrants from Italy. Anyway, to this day I tease my mom because her pantry is always buldging at the seams. She is constantly buying groceries. She also cooks large meals everyday!! These days it is just her and dad and she still cooks breakfast, lunch and dinner and never forgets desert!! I know it is because she was never sure of a meal as a kid and always worried that food was scarce. So as a child, I was accustomed to large meals three times a day and always desert. I know I love cake because mom would bake several times a week and sometimes we had warm pound cake for breakfast. I am trying to break these behaviors in my own life.

About a year ago my sister and her son came to visit. We happened to have fresh figs in the fruit bowl. I sort of took them for granted as dh loves them and isists upon them. My sister was fixated on the figs and kept trying to get her son to eat some. (He is really fearful around food- did not try any.) After a talk with my sis, I came to see that the figs were a status symbol to her- we could afford fresh figs an she couldn't. They became larger than life- sort of a dividing line and a focal point.
Not sure if this relates, but thought about it after reading the post.
I have a thing with fresh berries. I think that they are too expensive and that when I am better off financially we will buy them. I force myself to buy them now. It is tough for me- from a mental and emotional standpoint. I have this idea that I deserve to eat medium to poor quality food because that it what I learned. I have to struggle with myself to allow the good foods that I know I need.
I learned to stuff myself with food that did not nourish me. Unlearning this and being willing to buy beautiful food is tough for me some days. I have made LOTS of progress, but this post remended me of years and decades back.
Just thinking as I type...

First, Sheri, you were in my dream last night - how weird is that? I had a dream that all of us here were actually together on a KD cruise, what a riot! So, Kathleen, when does the ship leave?

Congrats on your lightbulb moment. I just love those

Food as a measure of success, wow that is really fascinating. Now that a day has passed, how is the thought of that gelling for you?

Lynne

I had never thought of that either but yes, I do think people do that without realizing it. Consider the person who gets a really big promotion. What do they do to celebrate? Go out to dinner with friends and family at a fancy restaurant.