quote:

Originally posted by cobismom:
WEll, we are after the restuarant industry again.

I'm sorry, Cathy, I didn't post this to be an attack on the restaurant industry. Rather, I thought it was a commentary on just how hard it is to balance common sense and personal responsibility in your healthy journey with the practical, economic and social realities of living in 21st century America (or Canada, since I know there are some of you on the forum). It's also kind of sad that the government has to spend money on a report to tell us what we should already know.

I agree with Brie about the Panera calories -- I ate there a lot because they have free wireless internet. The food looks deceptively healthy but the calories are crazy. I think that their sauces must have a lot of sugar and fat in them. I decided to get internet at home rather than be tempted by huge bagels (hopefully will have it by next week) or limit myself to the hours of the labs and libraries nearby.

I think chain restaurants should have to supply the nutritional info but I think small restaurants should be exempt. They already have enough to worry about with competition from the chains. Also, I think chains are the ones most likely to use Frankenfoods -- highly-processed sauces, premade super-processed "grilled" chicken, and things like that. Local restaurants are more likely to cook with real ingredients. I try to choose local places instead of chains whenever I can, both because I think the food is better for me (and tastier) and because I want to support local businesses rather than a big corporation.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee:
My point was in the beginning of my health journey, BEFORE I weighed and measured things out...

Obviously I know better now.

Sorry, that wasn't clear from the original post... I didn't realize that this was a long time ago...

Sorry about that.

We went out for Mexican food Tuesday night and I ordered Chicken fajitas.

I have had 3 meals from that one order of fajitas so far, and I still have more chicken left. (Don't worry, I haven't been eating all three of those meals with guac. and sour cream and tortillas each time.)

I have had the leftover chicken with rice and veggies the past 2 nights with no extra toppings.

Still, my point is if someone ate that entire thing for one meal, I can't imagine how many calories that would be even though it is mostly just chicken and veggies.

When I first went to France and ate out when the meal would come I would think "Wow! That's it? What a rip off!" But you know, I never left a restaurant hungry in France. I didn't have leftovers, but I was satisfied.

Dawn

I am trying to cut back on restaurant meals but I am always checking out the nutritional info if I can find it for a specific restaurant. Even with their info-I still think I am ending up getting more calories than they are telling me I am. AND, if Joe Schmo is putting the mayo on your burger, is he measuring it to the exact amt. they used to calculate that nutritional info-I don't think so. AND-I have also been surprised, like Bee, at certain what I would consider better choice foods. I am usually shocked when I see something like a veggie sub containing almost my full days worth of calories, OR, finding that the really great chicken salad I had with very little dressing was more calories than the burger on the menu. BUT-I will still usually go with the veggie or salad choices-even if they are higher calories-because I figure at least I am getting some good stuff with the veggies.

Jill

My point was in the beginning of my health journey, BEFORE I weighed and measured things out, a veggie sandwich sure SOUNDED healthier than a Big Mac, salads SOUNDED healthier than fried chicken, etc.... Nutritional lables certainly would have helped me.

I'm smart enough about it now to ask for all high fat items on the side whereever I go to eat (and I don't eat at Panera - been their twice in the last three years).

For people who aren't into nutrition as much as we are, it's just not so black and white in terms of what's healthy and what isn't. Outside this board, I only know two other people who weigh and measure their food. I think most people would be very hard pressed to tell you what a single serving of bread looks like.

Thankfully I'm 3 1/2 years into this journey and have been weighing/measuring for all that time and re-learned portion control. As you know, that isn't an easy thing and it takes work.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask restaurants to continue providing nutritional information. It would be one more tool that people could use to help make better decisions (or not if they were so inclined). With the obesity problem as wide spread as it is, I think the more tools we have, the better.



I think the point of the article is that Americans DO have portion distortion and that part of the blame is with restaurant companies who continue to offer larger and larger portions.

And yes, at the beginning of this process I definitely had portion distortion - a serving of pasta was a huge bowl, a sandwich was always overstuff, meat was 8 oz at least, etc... That's why I was obese.

Obviously I know better now.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Brie,

quote:

Originally posted by Bee:
In general Panera's bread seems to have more calories per serving than most other places/brand plus who knows what they put into thd cucumber dressing on that sandwich!

I looked at their website and Panera bread seems very comparable to bread everywhere. 2 oz of most Panera’s breads are 120-150 cals. 2 oz of the bread I buy at trader Joes is about 140 cals for 2 oz.

Bee, You may not like to hear this, but you probably have a case of good old fashioned portion distortion.

At home, You or I might put ½ - 1 tsp of oil in my dressing. Well, watch how Ina, Bobby, Emeril, Paula, et all, make dressing… They all own restaurants… that is what salad/sandwich dressing looks like in a restaurant. They use (at least) half a cup of oil or mayo for 4 servings … that is 2 TBS or 240 calories in each serving. (But it is also really likely that the chef eyeballs it.) And there is probably 1-2 ounces of dressing on the sandwich (or salad). Yep count on 240 calories. Shoot, just round off and call it 250 calories.

Doesn’t matter if it is an expensive restaurant. Doesn’t matter if it is some “healthy” organic frou-frou place (because they are using frou-frou organic olive oil - same calories.). Doesn’t matter if it is a chain, like Panera, trying to pass as healthy frou-frou. Doesn’t matter it if it is a packet of the full fat dressing from McDonald’s. 250 calories. And always assume it is full fat, unless you can prove other wise - like it is a packet from McDonald‘s with the nutrition info on it. (And this is mean… but I don’t take wait staff’s word for it. Worked in too many restaurants.)

French roll? Ciabatta bread? Fancy artesian bread?. 500 calories. Automatically. No need to guess.

You go on FitDay.com and look up a (large) sour dough roll, and it will say, 156 calories. Yeah, that is for a 2 oz roll (but FitDay.com doesn’t say that… it just says “large”) 2 oz equals two government servings of bread or about 156 calories. The sandwhich rolls at Panera and the Safeway Supermarket Deli and elsewhere are 6-8 oz. 450-600 calories.

It isn’t hard at all to figure out where the 800 calories came from in the sandwich. 800 probably is an under estimate.

You posted that you’ve been burned time and time again… But, it is you that is underestimating the portions. It isn’t the restaurants’ fault. For whatever reason, you are not processing the information correctly.

You got burned at Panera… And then assumed that the bread is more calories at Panera… so therefore a logical conclusion is the roll at a different restaurant is less calories… but it isn’t… it is still 500 calories. Go out to eat and have a sandwich on a roll with “healthy cuc” dressing, some turkey, some vegs (let’s leave off the cheese) and you are looking at 800-1,000 calories. For a sandwich. No soda. No chips. Even if you leave the mayo/dressing off… you are still looking at 550-800 calories for a “dry” sandwich.

Do you weigh the rolls and muffins and tortillas and such that you get from the bakery? I bet they are more calories than you think… Weight/nutrition info listed at the bakery might be the standard government 2 oz serving size… and the muffin you bring home might be 3-6+ oz.

Underestimate the thickness of your salmon by a mere .25” and you are looking at 25% more calories. We all tend to underestimate. Study after study after study shows that virtually all people underestimate.

And to a certain extent… that is why trying to count calories is an exercise in frustration. We eyeball and under estimate. We look it up on fit day.com and get told that a 500 cal sour dough roll is only 156 calories. We fool ourselves that the bread at one store is super packed with calories and other stores have less calories.

I really don’t know what the solution is… but I know that labels every where are not the answer. Maybe people shouldn't eat out 30% of their meals. Don't know.

But the government won't be figuring it out any time soon... so we better figure it out ourselves.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GoingSkiing,

quote:

Originally posted by Bee:
I also think though that there are lots of folks who haven't educated themselves about nutrition and it would be a start (and helpful) to have easier access to nutritional info.

My dh doesn't read the labels that are already on packages... why would he read even more labels. The information is out there. He is very intellegent. It isn't an area he wants to be educated in. It isn't important to him. I think he is pretty average in that regard.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee:
Denise
I figured at most the sandwich had 500 calories so I was off by a lot!

Even dieticians guess off that much...

Basic rule of thumb, if you are eating out, you are eating more calories.

Also, I'm not sure I want EVERY menu I look at coming at with with all the numbers.

I want some white space on the menu. If I go to a nice restaurant... I don't want to know. I don't care.

I care a LOT of the time. I guess pretty close a most of the time. Good enough.

Denise
I figured at most the sandwich had 500 calories so I was off by a lot! In general Panera's bread seems to have more calories per serving than most other places/brand plus who knows what they put into thd cucumber dressing on that sandwich!

PS It was also loaded with fat - more than a Big Mac

PSS I do agree that common sense in general goes a long way. I also think though that there are lots of folks who haven't educated themselves about nutrition and it would be a start (and helpful) to have easier access to nutritional info.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee:
For example, the veggie sandwich at Panera has over 800 calories! I was FLOORED when I saw that.

I'm curious... how many did you think it was? How off was your guess?

Also, labels don't always mean anything. They are an estimate at best. I've bought muffins and such with labels, and had the label be way wrong. I've bought sour dough rolls and had the label say: Serving size - 1 roll - 2 oz. And put the roll on a food scale and have it weigh 6 oz. But I put it on the scale because I pretty much guessed that this was some honking big 2 oz of bread...

PLUS, according to government standards, labels are allowed to off… by a lot! If I’m reading this correctly, labels are allowed to off by 20%. I’ve read a few studies that when they take packaged foods into a lab… they are usually off by about 15%… and it usually isn’t in our favor.

quote:

From: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/nutrguid.html

The Third Group nutrients include calories, sugars, total fat, saturated fat, cholesterol, and sodium… For foods with label declarations of Third Group nutrients, the ratio between the amount obtained by laboratory analysis and the amount declared on the product label in the Nutrition Facts panel must be 120% or less, i.e., the label is considered to be out of compliance if the nutrient content of a composite of the product is greater than 20% above the value declared on the label.

So maybe the 800 calorie sandwich is really 960 calories... it would still be within government guidelines...

Basically even with labels, I only have a rough estimate of how many calories I consume on any given day. And I have an even rougher estimate I burn on any day... ... but I know when I gain... I need to cut back... and when I'm losing to much (both days that happened) I need to eat a little more.

Common sense goes a long way… and they can’t legislate it…

WEll, we are after the restuarant industry again. I will try not to offend anyone with my comments.

Americans in particular are now used to getting a big bang for their buck, that is why buffets are so popular. Pile the food as high as you can and go back for more, all for $10.99! I can hear the complaints if we cut back on the size of our steaks to 4 oz or 6 oz. Our food costs are the same and the price to the customer would be the same, but the portions would be smaller, because the public can't control their own portions. Not likely to happen. Sorry, you are in charge of your own eating habits, not the waiter, not the cooks, not the restuarant. That is why they have to-go boxes.

As for the school food issues, I am with you 150%! Our HS has three lines, one with gov't lunch program, one with fast food items (fried) and one with salads, fruits, vegies and vegie, yogurt, good healthy food. Which one sells out more often than not? The healthy line! Honestly. The students meet with the food service mgr a month at a time, make up a menu for this line, and what will go. They have choices and she tries to meet those choices. What has happened is that the gov't program still has food in it's locker, the fried foods went in the garbage and the healthy food line, made money. YIPEE!

I agree with your point Denise about most things but I've definitely been surprised too. For example, the veggie sandwich at Panera has over 800 calories! I was FLOORED when I saw that.

There are also places where their salads have so many extra things in them that they are highly caloric as well.

I definitely prefer to know the nutritional content of what I'm eating. I've just been burned one to many times.

And honestly I eat in restaurants that don't have nutrition info posted... and it has never been a problem. It isn't rocket science to figure that a chicken breast is going to be healthier than the smothered bacon cheese burger.

I belong to a dinner co-op and somebody else cooks my dinner 3 nights a week. It isn't rocket science to figure out how many calories a piece of salmon is.

And when enchiladas are delivered for dinner on Wednesday... and they have cheese on them... and I'm pretty sure that Becky doesn't use low fat cheese... it isn't rocket science to figure out that maybe I should have a big salad and not to eat half a pan of enchiladas.

And I don't even have to look the calories or the points or whatever up.

quote:

Originally posted by susanrows:
Can somebody please tell me why they would need $100 worth of lab work to calculate the calories in one menu item, when there are dozens of web sites that do it for free?

Apparently you and I are sharing a brain today Susan as I was thinking the exact same thing.

While it might not be 100% scientific/accurate, it would at least be a guilde/estimate.

Too bad the report didn't address school food in addition to restaurant food. If our school cafeterias are any indication of what's being served around the country, we should all be taking a long hard look there too.