Before committing to getting healthy, I was a chronic eater-outer. It got to the point that I really wasn't cooking at all. I still find it tempting -- so much so that I opted to stay home tonight while my husband took his mom out. I just didn't trust myself with the bread basket, the dessert menu, and all the myriad temptations. I made a healthy dinner at home and it was satisfying -- but there was a little part of me that wanted to chase after the car and say, "Wait for me!" So I'm wondering if there are any other recovering restaurant addicts out there -- and how you handle this in your own journeys. Thanks!

speaking of eating out

I found this article on the Good Eats Fan Page:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/b...in-the-kitchen/full/

I don't eat out much, but when I do (if with family or something) I watch people eat bread and such, and really, most restaurant bread isn't worth it. I have a wheat allergy, so have to have things without bread, crumbs, flour, etc, so when I do eat out, its a splurge. I've found there are certain ways to make things easier... go to smaller restaurants, because the same things that people talk about as potential minuses can be plusses too. If you tip well, and go to places they know you, they will be able to help you find good food... they will be able to suggest things, they will be able to make sure your order get to you the way you want it.

(And quite frankly, the more I read on food safety issues, the less I want to go to chain restaurants anyway). I think the problem really comes when you go to a chain...

quote:

Originally posted by Jen F:
[...] We care for his mom, who has Alzheimer's, in our home -- and part of the difficulty is that her only pleasure is dining out and it's often the only way we can get her to really eat (she's fussy about what she'll eat). [...]

I have taken care of my mother for several years so we have a lot in common.
My mother sounds a lot like your mil. She has some sort of dementia. Until this past week, I did not think it was Alzheimer's but recent events are making me think it may be (neurologist appointment on Monday).
She does not eat properly and the best way to get her to eat a decent meal is to take her out to eat.

PS... again...

I don't know if this is true for you... but it would be true for ME... and I'll throw it out there.

I don't know if you say to yourself things like, "I deserve pie tonight!" or "Today was a really hard day. I'm going to have some bread. With butter." or "Ughhhh... I'm so tired. I just can't resist the ______".

I've done a LOT of that in the past... and it makes weight loss or even maintaining and not gaining really hard. And those kinds of thoughts, or emotional eating, can make eating out really hard. Because it is really easy to pick something "bad" off the menu and rationalize that you "need" or "deserve" it or to say "Just this once".

IF you have a lot of these kinds of thoughts... I thought that "The Beck Diet for Life" was very good at quieting all of the rationalizations. Some people don't like her, because she is sort of strict and no-nonsense. She isn't all warm and fuzzy and funny like KD...

But I liked it. KD's books are also very "Knock off the excuses..." but she is funnier.

quote:

Originally posted by Jen F:
We care for his mom, who has Alzheimer's, in our home -- and part of the difficulty is that her only pleasure is dining out and it's often the only way we can get her to really eat (she's fussy about what she'll eat).

I was thinking about this and you definitely has some challenges that I don't have. I was thinking about this.

Since your mil lives with you... I think it fine for your dh and mil to go out sometimes and you eat at home. My kid is a 17 year old boy and can eat 4000-5000 calories a day and maintain. He'll ride his bike and go get a pizza and bring it home and eat it for a snack. And I don't feel any social obligation to join him.

I'd think it weird if your mil was visiting from out of town and you didn't want to go with them so that you could stick to your diet... but given that she lives with you... that is different.

OTOH, I’m guessing that since your mil has Alzheimer’s… going out to eat MIGHT be one of the more pleasant parts of your day. And I’m guessing it is a period of time when she is happiest and more agreeable?

I could totally see that if I were in your situation, I’d want to eat out a lot, too. I think that if I WERE in your situation… I think that if my lifestyle changed and I was eating out a lot… I’d have to change my ideas about eating out.

I have been in the position of being in a hotel and eating dinner out 30 days out of 120 every winter… and I had to be quite a bit more careful than when I'm eating at home every night and going out twice a month.

Many people have trouble with buffets… but I actually found that they worked really well for me. Most of them have HUGE salad bars… and you are in TOTAL control of the dressing and croutons and cheese. They also tend to have plain fish or plain meats. Many buffets have a turkey and you can ask for a couple of slices of breast.

The down side is that they also have HUGE dessert spreads… but if you can just wrap your mind around, “Friday is dessert night. Today is Wednesday, and I’m not having dessert. But I will on Friday” or “I can have 2 bites of dessert every single day for as long as I live! I don’t need to eat the whole thing today. There will still be dessert tomorrow. There is no dessert emergency or dessert rationing happening any time soon. But I will TOTALLY enjoy my two bites today, and tomorrow, and the next day, and the next…”. You will be ok.

And another down side… I’ve never actually lived with a person with Alzheimer’s and I don’t know if navigating a buffet would be beyond stressful. But when I had to eat out a LOT, I usually ate in buffets.

And USUALLY I’m not a fan of showing up with a purse filled with salad dressing or taking your own tortilla chips out for Mexican… however, if I needed/wanted to eat out a LOT of nights… I think I might. And I’d also start sending food back.

I think that if your lifestyle requires you to eat out a lot… be it travel or family circumstances… that requires different skills than somebody like me… where I go out once every week or two… and I can eat whatever I want.

I think that if I was eating out a LOT… I’d be ordering the salad with chicken or salmon… Which I very seldom do, since I hate paying $$$ for a chicken breast. And scope out a few restaurants that are really going to be able to accommodate you… since you WILL be a regular customer.

And sending best wishes… since I’m sure that it is stressful.

i am one of those people who works fulltime, and it is hard to cook meals at home all the time. as a result, my meals can be BORING! because i have to cook a big batch of food to last a few days--i just don't have time each day to make a spectacular original yummy meal.

I am reading Julie and Julia, and I tell you, I don't know how that author did it. she worked fulltime, and she made meals from the cookbook almost every day. and she lived in new york--we all know it takes hours to commute from subway,taxi,walking, etc etc in the city of new york. how did she find the time?

Lots and lots of great ideas and input!

I eat out far less than I used to. Last week I was driving past a local pizza place that sells individual slices and a salad bar for lunch. I even while I was maintaining my weight, I ate there maybe once a week. The slice of pizza was about 400-450 calories. The salad I ate was about 200- 250 calories. I ended up around 650 calories per meal. It was not horrible and I managed to eat lighter dinners when I had the pizza for lunch.

I've stopped the pizza habit in large part because I have opted to eat a very low fat diet to reverse heart disease. I've also stopped most eating out. We eat out about once every 2-3 weeks. It's working well for us this summer.

Sometimes I miss eating out. Like many other have said, it's an old, fun, comfortable habit. I like the social part of eating out. I like the change of atmosphere and the generous portions. I am trying to find the balance. Eating out enough to feel satisfied and limiting myself enough to stay healthy.

One advantage I have in terms of limiting restaurant dining is that I have ample time to cook, shop and plan. I find that it takes energy to cook dinners that are satisfying and healthy. I know lots of women who work full time out of the home. They are just too exhausted and stretched to cook at home for 90% of dinners. They end up getting take out for lunch because there are rarely leftovers from cooking the night before. I don't believe I could cook so much or so well if I worked more than I do. Plus, my experience is that eating out makes me want to eat out. If I was working full time, I would want some reward, some comfort after working all day. I'd end up eating out to feel better.

My health situation is different than others...I can see where it would be fine to eat out 1-2 times per week if I did not have cardiovascular issues. Like Denise mentioned, moderation looks different for all of us.

quote:

I can make great food at home and I love to cook but I also love to have someone else make a great meal for me.

That is the ONLY thing I miss about my "I deserve to eat out frequently" mentality. I get really tired of cooking all the time now and then (especially with school in full swing). This is when I'm really grateful that I often cook in massive batches and freeze most of them in single portions.

Like Sheri, I too still love dining out and do it regularly. I can make great food at home and I love to cook but I also love to have someone else make a great meal for me. My SO used to work as a sous chef so he does cook a lot for me. I used to eat out a lot more than I do now and at places where the calories were so NOT worth it. Now when we go out it is mostly to restaurants where I know the meal will be really great. We tend to go to the same 3 or 4 places, so I know the menu and there are no surprises going into it. Do I enjoy Sonic food-sure do! Do I love McDonald's french fries?-YUP!! I just don't eat them much anymore.

A big part of cutting out restaurants for us is not just the health factor but money. For what we spend on dinner out I can make several dinners at home.

Sounds like you are doing well Jen. I believe there is room for dining out in a healthy diet.

Jill

Sorry I'm late to the party, but better late than never, right? Here's my 2 cents:

quote:

Originally posted by Jen F:
So I'm wondering if there are any other recovering restaurant addicts out there -- and how you handle this in your own journeys.

Yes! {waving hand in air} I'm one, too. Before I started my journey on July 1, 2003, I was eating out at a restaurant near work for lunch EVERY DAY. Some years before that, I was also hitting a fast food place on the way home to pick up dinner. So yes, I think recovering restaurant addict would cover it. RecoverING being the key word in my case, because I am most definitely NOT fully recoverED.

I hear people say that they can make better tasting food at home or that they have no desire for restaurant or fast food anymore--well, I've been at this for 6 years now, and I haven't gotten to that point. I still LOVE to eat out and I still eat out regularly--just not every day! More like once a week. Sometimes it's once in 2 weeks and sometimes it's twice in a weekend when friends are visiting, but the majority of the time, it's once a week.

My biggest struggle--which Denise addresses in her #1 tip below--is that the town I now live in was my vacation destination for over 20 years. So when I was here, I was in "vacation mode" and my friends (who live here) and I regularly ate out back in those days. So, when I moved here last year, suddenly I realized that I had a "history" with so many of the restaurants here...and it wasn't a healthy one! If I go into one of my old haunts, even if I tell myself all the way there that I'm going to order healthy, I fold between the time I walk in the door (and smell those familiar smells) and the time I slide into the booth.

One thing that helps me in both restaurant eating and other social eating (parties, food at work, etc.) is to stop and think before you eat what is worth the calories. Am I REALLY wanting that burger and fries today? Then I get it (and eat half). If not, I cruise around the menu looking for something else...maybe an appetizer vs. an entree if I'm not that hungry.

Before I retired, my office had birthday parties once a month and they were never healthy (until some of us started to ask for at least SOME healthy components). So I'd cruise the food table and see what looked really good AND worth the calories. A standard grocery store sheet cake? I can pass that by. It's not going to give me the bang for my buck that I'm looking for. There were a couple of other coworkers who were watching their weight as well and I'd slide by and whisper "Worth the calories?" if they were already eating it and if they said no, I passed on by.

Finally, as a general tip, one of the HUGEST changes I made in 2003 that has served me well ever since is that I stopped thinking of myself either being on or off a "diet" and started thinking of myself as engaging in a healthy lifelong lifestyle. For decades, I had stopped eating healthy if I made a mistake--I went "off the diet" figuring that I'd screwed up anyway, so why not? And that was always the thinking that doomed me to failure. Now that I don't think that way anymore, I do not look at one bad decision as the end of the road--it's just a bump in the road and I keep on rollin'.

ditto!

jen, that is awesome.

quote:

Originally posted by Jen F:
It wasn't even worth it, really. Darn! In the past, having this kind of "slip up" would lead me down the path to eating with wild abandon. I feel bummed about my choice, but came home and took a walk.

That is actually GREAT progress! We all order things that aren't worth it... and then eat it simply because it is there.

The fact that you didn't let it derail you further is AWESOME! And now you know... don't order that again...

Was a learning experience.

After all that great advice, and a day of eating great, I went out this evening and didn't do a great job. I had a small salad and the boxty -- it sounded fairly inoffensive, but I could taste the grease and it included cheese. It wasn't even worth it, really. Darn! In the past, having this kind of "slip up" would lead me down the path to eating with wild abandon. I feel bummed about my choice, but came home and took a walk. I just keep telling myself that getting healthy and fit isn't a sprint, but a marathon. You asked about my husband -- he's pretty supportive, but hates it when I agonize over food. We care for his mom, who has Alzheimer's, in our home -- and part of the difficulty is that her only pleasure is dining out and it's often the only way we can get her to really eat (she's fussy about what she'll eat). Anyway, tomorrow is another day, right? Thanks again for all of your wisdom.

At one point in my life, eating out was a "deserved necessity" as chief cook in my house. Since DH hates to cook (and will do everything he can to avoid it), he was more than happy to oblige. I would have never believed you if you'd told me than that I'd actually dislike eating out down the road.

Now, eating out is not worth the salt, extra calories, and fuss. If I have a say in the matter, I'll eat out once or twice a month in a restaurant where I KNOW my order will be prepared the way I want it. There are a few places (at most 5) where I will go and eat with an eye on portion control, but not on eating healthy. But those account for maybe 5-7 meals a year.

When I eat out because I can't avoid it, I do everything I can to avoid stuff I know tends to be higher calorie and can make at home and be more satisfied with. I can be pretty darn happy with a grilled piece of chicken or fish, baked potato, and veg, knowing it's less damage to my diet than most of the other options.

I also watch what I'm eating the rest of the week and try to add some extra exercise in.

PS... and honestly... many times I order something that I won't or can't make at home.

There are sooooo many healthier things I can make at home that taste great... I'm not going to order those in the restaurant. But like calamari... I'm not making that at home.

And honestly, we seldom go to restaurants that serve bread with the meal (unless you count the bun on a burger... lol), so I often eat the bread in a restaurant.

I don't serve garlic bread with spaghetti or lasagna at home... but I'll eat garlic bread in an Italian restaurant, or I eat the sour dough if we eat at a restaurant in San Francisco. But we go out for that kind of meal fairly infrequently.

And when we limit going out to eat to just once a week... and if I am 110% honest about the calories I'm eating, both at home and eating out... I've never had a problem.

I think that most people get into trouble when they start equating how they cook at home and eating in a restaurant. Like I'm making breakfast burritos for dinner tonight. One burrito will be 455 calories. I watched somebody make me a breakfast burrito in Tahoe last winter... and I KNOW that it was 2000-2500 calories.

I think that the mistake people make is thinking, "If I made this at home... it would be 455 calories... so this one is probably 600 or 700 calories at the most".

I also think that even if people hear or know that the average restaurant meal is 2000-3000 calories... somehow, they are able to convince themselves that THEIR restaurant is healthier. Or that the food on THEIR plate couldn't possibly be 2250 calories. Or they think that if THEIR food had 53 grams of fat... they would taste it.

But I think that if you are really honest about what you are eating... you can fit in SOME of almost any meal... or bread... or whatever...

Another strategy is to lose for 3 weeks... and then just plan to maintain for one week... and if you want to go out and eat 5000-6000 calories in appetizers, dinner and dessert, do so. You may not lose that week, and might even see a small gain.

You talked about the black and white thinking from other diets or WW'ers... Some of ditching that is figuring out WHAT moderation is. And specifically what moderation is for YOU. Because we all like different foods. And we all have different health or weight goals.

And it is EXTREMELY likely that YOUR moderation will look different from mine.

NEVER eating out probably won't work. And ALWAYS eating out probably won't work. So, then you just keep experimenting and figuring out what DOES work.

And it is a physical, mental and emotional thing. What is the healthier choice... and what makes you happy... and what makes you feel satisfied. And it can be hard. It can be a moving target... to make it even harder.

quote:

Originally posted by GoingSkiing:
Jen, is your husband supportive? That helps.

I was wondering the same thing. If your dining companions are on board, it's easier to ask the waiter to just remove the bread basket, and therefore the temptation.

Another trick you can try is ordering an appetizer or salad as your entree. The waiter, the one who's looking for a tip, has a little more control over when he brings you your food (as opposed to making sure your food is prepared according to your special request).
Add a cup of soup if you're really hungry; in most cases, you'll probably still end up with a smaller portion than you would get with an entree.

Jen, is your husband supportive? That helps.

I'd also add: Don't be influenced by "free"... as in "free bread" or "free refills on drinks and fries" or "getting your moneys worth".

Also... I would bring home half a piece of salmon or half a piece of steak. Although, I have to admit that it drives me insane to pay $14 for a piece of salmon I can broil in 12 mins at home.

I wouldn't bring home half a plate of pasta. Since you are probably bringing home 1,000 to 1,500 calories worth of pasta. You measure out your pasta at home... you are talking 200-300 calories.

i used to think going out was a treat. but then i have had some pretty awful meals at restaurants. i have to admit that both myself and my SO can whip up a pretty tastey meal at home. we go out to eat every sunday because it is convenient. we are already out and about at a movie or something.

when i am running errands on saturdays, someitme i am tempted to just stop somewhere for a bite to eat. we have the EVOS in our area which is a better (but not perfect) choice for fast food. but then i often think--i should just go home and eat something. i am almost always more satisfied eating at home.

also, my brother is a chef, and i know from him how much extra butter and oil and salt is used at restaurants. I don't believe those calorie counts that are now published on menus. i think Jill's SO is also in the restaurant industry. and anyone who has ever waitressed or worked in a restaurant knows what happens in that kitchen. how many things have fallen on the floor still end up on a customer plate?? Meditate on this more and you will love eating meals cooked in your own kitchen!

having said that, i have some favorite restaurants that i enjoy, especially for birthdays and other special occasions.