Did you see the segment on Oprah where Dr. Oz. and Bob Greene said not to focus on counting calories?

I didn't see the segment so any information you can impart is most helpful....

What do you think? Are you for or against counting calories?

KD, I think that maybe we are on the verge of using this subject up.

Do you have any other seemingly innocuous, innocent questions like, “Anybody see Bob Greene on Oprah? What do you think?” that can create a huge long 4 day heated “discussion”?

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Originally posted by Sandy:
I looked up calorie info on the sausage pizza slice. It was nearly 700 calories. OMG!

And I used to eat 4 of them.

I think that most of my “sticker shock” foods… ones that I look up and discover that the calories are a LOT… are foods that I eat out.

At home… my calories add up when I’ve made a healthy dinner that is 300 or 400 and then eat 2 or even 3 of them because they ARE healthy and relatively low calorie. And I would also tend to pick… I wouldn’t go back and put a whole other dinner on my plate.

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P.S. I am off on vacation for the next week. Will see you all after the Easter Bunny's visit.

We may be ships passing in night… I think we are leaving the day before the Bunny comes… Have a wonderful vacation!

sandy, have a wonderful vacation!

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Originally posted by D in St Pete:



[QUOTE]

One of my co-workers, as he was eating his FOURTH SLICE of thick-crust pepperoni, told me that cutting calories doesn't work for him, he's BEEN ON A DIET for three weeks. "How many calories in that pizza, big guy?" I ask. "Oh, this? Like, what, 150 a slice or something?"

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I can so relate to this guy. I remember going to my favorite lunch pizza place. I sometimes thought about looking up calorie counts for a slice of sausage pizza. But I knew that I did not want to know. I felt like going there was an experience in closing my eyes and hoping for the best. Or closing my eyes and not giving a Sh*t what I was eating.

The bizarre thing was that after a slice of sausage pizza I really wanted something sweet, so I sometimes go for a cookie. (I felt I NEEDED the sweet.)

About 2+ years ago I looked up calorie info on the sausage pizza slice. It was nearly 700 calories. OMG!

So...I switched out to the 380 calorie cheese slice and never get the cookie. I add a salad to bulk up my meal. I still get to go there and still enjoy it. (Actually I enjoy it more because I am not dealing with the stress of trying not to know how aweful my intake was.)
And I get out of there for about 500 calories.

P.S. I am off on vacation for the next week. Will see you all after the Easter Bunny's visit.

I lost inches all over, for once. 13 cm off my hips, a few off my waist which wasn't that thick to begin with, and approx 8 cm off my thighs. Unfortunately I also lost whatever chest I'd piled on while I was 30 lbs heavier (and that wasn't a whole lot, enough to give a hint but not much more).

I was very pleased to see the results, because I'm concerned with fitting into my clothes. Too bad it didn't stay off... I can eat fairly large amounts of "real" food and no increase, but cheeses, cake etc give me inches even before I see the extra pounds.

...y'all make me a little jealous, and this might make some of you a little angry.

32 pounds lost, right? So I go from a 38DD to a 36DD. Um, thanks. I still have trouble finding sports bras, shirts, and cute "normal" bras.

I had lunch today with co-workers that I don't get to see often (they work overnights), and two of them commented on my weight loss and asked the "how." I gave the simple answer--eating less. This is while we're at a pizza place, and I'm eating my slice of thick-crust veggie pizza with a knife and fork, putting the fork down between bites, drinking water, and sopping the grease off the top of the pizza with an extra napkin. I ate that ONE piece of pizza.

One of my co-workers, as he was eating his FOURTH SLICE of thick-crust pepperoni, told me that cutting calories doesn't work for him, he's BEEN ON A DIET for three weeks. "How many calories in that pizza, big guy?" I ask. "Oh, this? Like, what, 150 a slice or something?"

FOCUSING on calories might not work for everyone. Being marginally aware that calories exist and the general quantity of them in food is probably a really good idea, though.

This topic has come up before here and I remember being SO thankful after hearing so many stories of huge boob loss that I lost inches through the band size of my bra but not the cup size. I mean, I went from flowing over the bra a bit to it fitting comfortably, but I did not change cup sizes at all--just band size (went from a 38B to a 36B). Then again, I never had much in the breasticle department to lose anyway.

the law firm i used to work for referred to me as the chinese J-Lo.

and yes, my chest would be referred to geographically as "the flatlands"

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Originally posted by Brie:
Denial can be pretty strong though ; )

That is like my dh having coffee cake and frozen yogurt every morning... and saying it is "healthy" because it is "yogurt". Might as well eat cake and ice cream for breakfast.

My mother is AMAZED that my dh can be incredibly intelligent... yet so dumb. However, I HAVE to believe that some place, he is very much participating in "I know what to do... I'm just not doing it" thinking. My dh can estimate calories with freaky accuracy. I’m always blown away when I ask, “How many calories do you think this is”. He is often very close. However, will also tell himself... "It is yogurt, it is healthy".

He also "exercises" by laying on his back and doing "isometrics"... sometimes his "exercise" is so intense, he falls asleep while doing it. If he wants to push my buttons, he will say, “I DO exercise”.

I was thinking about it... And my dh is NOT in a demographic to buy KD's (or anybody else's) book.

* * *
Mine went from a D to a B... but the rest of me shrank... so they look about the same, I think. Of course, my already flat butt loses inches. From behind... my behind will never be confused with J-Lo's.

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(why, oh why can't we lose weight/inches and not lose in that area?!! )

Aint that the truth! That was one of the first places where I started losing. I went from an E cup down to a B. That was the one part of the weight loss that dh wasn't too thrilled with ; )

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although, it is generally pretty hard to fool your self that brownies are probably a pretty healthy choice

You would think wouldn't you? Denial can be pretty strong though ; ) Dh came home last night and told me he had a Hawaiian pizza from a local place and that it was healthy because it had pineapple and not a lot of cheese.

I found the nutritional info for him - almost 800 calories, 40 g of fat and over 2000 mg of sodium which is HUGE for him as he has high blood pressure and is generally super anal about salt. It just didn't occur to him that there would be salt in pizza - HELLO???? HAM???

I also have to say that there have been plenty of times when I've been surprised myself - veggie sandwich at Panera being the biggest shocker : )

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Originally posted by GoingSkiing:

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Originally posted by jillybean:
When I was a faithful Curves member I lost 7 inches the first month, but lost no weight.

Whoa!! that is awesome!!! Was that all in your waist? I think that the only tape measure number Oz cares about is the waist.

No, it was not all in my waist. I can't remember exactly, but some was waist, some hips/thighs, and some chest (why, oh why can't we lose weight/inches and not lose in that area?!! )

I did lose weight after the second and third months but the inches lost were always higher. As always, I got bored at Curves and joined a regular gym. For those unfamiliar w/Curves-and obviously it works quite well-there are a limited number of machines and you do 30 min. circuit of that equipment, so there is not much you can do to mix it up. I like the variety of workout DVD's, and also a regular gym for the sake of being able to add new things OR once you have followed the same workout for a while, being able to change it. I will say that the convenience of a 30 minutes and done workout is awesome and the results are there. They also encourage stretching and the one I went to had a poster on the wall of stretches and how to do them to maximize your workout.

Jill

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Originally posted by iz:
i actually don't do that THAT much. more often, i just instictly know--ok, you ate more than your share of brownies--so do an extra 15 minutes of cardio, have more veggies and reduce some of the fat for the next 2-3 days.

That makes a lot of sense... although, it is generally pretty hard to fool your self that brownies are probably a pretty healthy choice ... unless you are buying "Whole grain, organic, low fat" brownies. (Studies show that when a food it labeled lowfat... we eat more of it.)

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i try not to make that big of a deal about it (mentally).

I think that is important... no matter what. I think that it is REALLY, REALLY important to just go into rational, logical Dr. Spock mode and do like you described and cut back a little to compensate.

And going into self loathing, beat myself up mode often makes me want to eat MORE brownies or high calorie foods rather than just rationally saying, "Wow! I ate a 2000 calories breakfast burrito... ok let me compensate and make up for it".

i think cate has it right when it comes to my approach. it is about awareness. i know what is going on.

yes, denise, i look up calories once in a while just to make sure i am aware. in fact, i often apply your post about flexible restraint. ok, so i had a few servings of brownies. i am pretty clean for the next few days. so what i do is look up just how many calories i consumed in those 4 servings of brownies so i have an idea about how much i need to cut back in the next few days. (same goes for about how many minutes i need to add on the elliptical to account for those brownies. ) but i actually don't do that THAT much. more often, i just instictly know--ok, you ate more than your share of brownies--so do an extra 15 minutes of cardio, have more veggies and reduce some of the fat for the next 2-3 days. i try not to make that big of a deal about it (mentally).

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Originally posted by jillybean:
When I was a faithful Curves member I lost 7 inches the first month, but lost no weight.

Whoa!! that is awesome!!! Was that all in your waist? I think that the only tape measure number Oz cares about is the waist.

I wonder if strength training is a part of his "You on a Diet" program.

I am something of an anomaly… I started lifting weights and lost virtually NO inches or clothing sizes. I can lift 30 to 100% more than when I started and have seen my strength increase… so I guess I’m building muscle. My weight remained stable. I neither lost nor gained pounds. And I neither lost nor gained inches… until I had been doing it more than 3 years. And I think that I lost ½ an inch off of my thighs or something. And maybe a little off my butt.

I know that the orthopedic surgeon and physical therapists considered me “strong” at the initial consultations and before I was doing any strength training. And I was already at my goal weight. And my waist meassurement was already probably as small as it will genetically be… considering the body shape of my female relatives. I’ve seen that for women:

Waist of over 31 inches (about 80cm) indicates slight health risk.
Waist of over 35 inches (about 90cm) indicates substantially increased risk.

And mine is/was well below these numbers… and it probably isn’t going any smaller unless I lose 5-10 lbs… which isn’t going to happen… or have surgery or liposuction for the perfect flat stomach… and THAT really ain’t happening!

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Originally posted by cate:
I don't think any of us who don't count calories aren't aware of our food and make changes when necessary.

I’ve been wrong and very biased in erring on the assumption that counting is the “better” way to go. I’ve been thinking about the little group of people on this board… and KD’s group may have some of the best weight loss and maint stats in the entire country! And some count calories and some don’t and many of us switch back and forth between counting and not counting…

I have a question…

Do you guys who are dedicated non counters look up calories… even if you don’t necessarily count them?

Here would be one of my biases… As a person who goes back and forth and has counted for months at a time… and not counted for months and months at a time. When I’m counting calories… I tend to look up foods more… and it is often a SERIOUS reality check.

For example, movie popcorn. To me, movie popcorn (with no added butter, of course!) doesn’t taste THAT different from microwave popcorn. And my natural inclination (and I’m guessing the inclination of MOST Americans) is to say to myself, “Yeah, movie popcorn is probably a little more calories than microwave… but probably not THAT many calories… and I didn’t get the added butter… so it is probably pretty healthy”.

And when I looked it up… it was God Awful so NOT healthy and had like 4 days worth of saturated fat and WAY, WAY more calories that microwave popcorn. When I make it on the stove at home and measure out 1 or 1.5 tsp… my popcorn has about 1/3 of a g. of sat fat. But the only way I “discovered” this was I was counting calories and wanted to know HOW many calories I was eating. I don’t think that I would have ever looked it up if I wasn’t counting.

WW’ers has its Core program, which is a “no counting” system. Actually, in the UK… they used to call if the “No Count” plan or something. But on WW, there is a list of Core Foods… and movie popcorn isn’t on it. And if you want movie popcorn… you have to use some of your 35 extra points.

But I know that FOR ME… I’ve had some big old OMG!!… _______ is sooooo coming off my list of "This Food is OK to Eat a Lot and Often" when I'm counting and looking up calories.

Also, I’m sure that Cate also has A-Ha moments because she has to look up stuff for glutten reasons, and I’m sure that eliminates a bunch of unhealthy calories.

Do you guys look up calories so that you can be aware of them... even if you are not necessary counting them up?

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by cate:
I like the idea of putting KD's plan onto a page. Maybe she could have different plans, showing how people cherry-pick what they do.

I like this idea, too… and HOW do you get and STAY aware? How to you NOT say cheese, whole grain crackers or pasta, movie popcorn, etc, etc, are ok to eat LOTS of (and not measure or count)… because they are “healthy”. I think that articulating that AWARENESS, is very important. And maybe a plan or check list of sorts would help.

I also think that for ANY plan… counting or not counting… the BIGGEST problem is the whole thing of “I know what to do… I’m just not doing it”. That is the HUGEST problem in weight loss/maint for EVERYBODY… regardless of plan… and ANYTHING KD can put into a book to help with this situation… will be a plus.

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I'd love to see how KD cooks/manages being a singleton. I suspect a lot of weight issues have to do with cooking for one, you end up being less than creative and gnawing on a roasted chicken leg for dinner from the chicken you cooked earlier in the week.

When I was single, I used to do the “Cook a chicken and gnaw on it for a week” thing, too. And honestly, now that I’m not single… I STILL make 4-5 servings of say “Thai Green Curry” (homemade… not from a restaurant) and then eat that every day for lunch. The good news about the “Gnaw on the same ‘boring’ chicken” method of eating… studies show that if you tend to eat the same things… you tend to eat less. For many people “creative” or new or different translates into eating more. Brie mentioned this. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15919842?dopt=Abstract

But, I may be unusual… OK… my 4th day of Thai Green Curry may be a LITTLE boring… but it is honestly a food that I LOVE… and the same way some people could eat pizza every day… I could eat vegetable Green Curry every day. Although by day 4 or 5... I am a little tired of it. But I still finish it off.

So… while you may be bored with the gnaw on a chicken leg… it is probably helping you with your weight control. I’m not convinced that bored is necessarily bad… unless we use it as an excuse to go get fast food or take out or something.

PS… I think from reading KD’s books… she avoid the boredom factor with different salsa or condiments…

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GoingSkiing,

I don't think any of us who don't count calories aren't aware of our food amd make changes when necessary. The problem I think is how to verbalize what you do.

I like the idea of putting KD's plan onto a page. Maybe she could have different plans, showing how people cherry-pick what they do.

I think a lot of people hear "I don't count calories" as not being aware of what goes into your body. No, I don't measure out every ounce, every time, but I am aware of how much of something I'm eating, and go back and take stock every now and then. For instance, I was eating too much cheese as a 'quick meal', so I gave it up for Lent to try to start going for alternatives.

I've had to give up wheat, which cuts a lot of stuff out of my diet, and I really had to refocus how I ate. When I started, I went with just doing a little more exercise, and eating regularly. I started trying to put more healthy stuff into our diets (I was still with the ex at this point).

I'd love to see how KD cooks/manages being a singleton. I suspect a lot of weight issues have to do with cooking for one, you end up being less than creative and gnawing on a roasted chicken leg for dinner from the chicken you cooked earlier in the week.

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Originally posted by iz:
jill, i wear a smaller clothes size than i did in 2005, but my weight is about the same. weight training has a lot to do with that.

Ditto for me except I'm about 10 pounds heavier and a size smaller. Weight training totally reshaped my body.

jill, i wear a smaller clothes size than i did in 2005, but my weight is about the same. weight training has a lot to do with that.

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When I was a faithful Curves member I lost 7 inches the first month, but lost no weight. I know that a lot of the women at Curves(they always had "themes" and when you lost weight/inches you wrote your name and inches/weight loss on a pumpkin, or flower, or whatever the theme was that month and hung it on the walls) lost many inches but not a lot of weight. I'm not sure how that works exactly because you would think that with inch loss would come weight loss.

That works because you are replacing the fat with muscle. A pound of fat weighs the same amount as a pound of muscle. Muscle is more dense than fat so it just takes up less space on your body.