Which proves the point that youth is wasted on the young who don't appreciate it.

Bill

quote:

footwear... socks... and hiking clothes...

If you are a 13 year old boy... and you are sitting on the couch minding your own business and playing X-Box and your slacker mom throws a fleece jacket at you and tells you to pack for 2 days camping...

Take the fleece and put it in the backseat of the car and return to the X-Box. When slacker mom asks if you are all packed, say "yes" (because slacker moms don't actually check). Go camping with the fleece in the backseat and the clothes on your back and the socks on your feet... which is a mixed matched pair of one your mom's Thorlo shin length running socks and some odd cotton "Haines Her Way" tennis ankle sock (which is probably your aunt's...) Both socks are 3 sizes too small for your size 12 and ½ half feet but who cares… they stretch and fit… sort of…. mostly.

Slacker mom will offer you a pair of her (not so dirty) socks (as she has only has two pairs with her...yesterday's and today's) before going out on 13 mile hike... But you decline the offer.... Since by definition slacker moms pick their battles and yours can't be bothered to enter the Sock War, you hike in the mix-matched socks.

Also, wear pants 7 sizes too big and no belt so that you must hold your pants up with one hand while hiking... but slacker mom IS prepared for this as she has extra webbing and plastic buckles attached to her back pack.

Upon returning home, slacker mom will actually kind of relieved that you do not have big blisters to show your dad… but then your shoes are tied so loosely… they are “super comfy” and fit like bedroom slippers and don’t rub on your feet anywhere… so no blister could develop.

Holy cannoli, Denise! That's a hike!

Yes, I'm hanging in there. Baby steps apply to many, many areas of life.

Actually, I came back because I decided to do a Google on SuperFeet. Their help section specifically talks about inserts that get trimmed to short. I can use sandpaper to taper the edges. There's hope!

Bill

Jamie and I hiked 7 hours - 13 miles yesterday.

We gained and lost 600 to 1000 feet about 6 times. It is a butt kicker of a hike!

We went to Berry Falls and then up past to Silver Falls (click on the photo and you can see the trail and cables on the right hand side of the falls) then up past Golden Cascades. (The guys milages on the website are way wrong... )

We are only a little sore... Getting out of the car after the drive home was rough.

I'm a little sore (but my knees don't hurt)... Jamie says he isn't sore because he can't feel his legs yet...

Hang in there, Bill!

I have Super Feet in my ski boots... they are great! It seems that they had different arch heights... If I remember correctly...

And hiking/ski poles also help with the down hill toe jam.

Peg,

Just got back from another hike. This one was 6.9 miles, and I found out after returning that it's considered the most difficult trail in this park. It was definitely more difficult. The ups and downs were numerous and steeper. We're still not talking anything over 100 feet of elevation here. Although added up, it probably gets up to about 1000.

You were so right about the toes! I decided to give them one more try. My toes were not happy. I will be back at REI this weekend to talk to them.

Actually, I did try the SuperFeet. I must say that they were wonderful, except that I had to use the size 8 insert (again, my boots are 8 1/2). The size 9 did not fit the arch of my foot. The size 8 was incredible, except that the insert was too short and I could feel the ridge under my toes. It was very uncomfortable after just ten minutes.

I asked about the custom formed SuperFeet. The staff person had never made them--or even seen them made. He also couldn't tell me the price. The pre-formed ones were $35. I can only imagine what the custom ones are. However, if that's what I need to be comfortable, then I'll have to start saving for them.

Loved my hike today! It took me 4 hours, 45 minutes. I did stop for 15 minutes to have my lunch. It was so wonderful to be perched up on a rock overlooking the skyline of Boston, watching the planes landing and taking off from Logan, and eating my sandwich. And the weather was wonderful! Clear, no humidity, approx. 85 degrees.

Again, Peg, thanks for you help. I really appreciate it.

Bill

quote:

The question is: Although I finished the hike and did not suffer from banged up toes, this was not a hike of any serious elevation. I'm thinking that my toes are not going to be happy when I'm coming down a mountain. I'm not wrong, right?

You are correct. You will be a sad boy if your toes spend the whole downhill part of the hike banging into the toe of the boot. I would consider one of 2 things. If you think the boot is the right size (and the fact that you can get it to work with really tight lacing makes me think that might be the case although I'm not a boot expert), you might try an insert that will help keep your foot in the correct foot bed of the boot. There are also some alternative ways to tie laces that I find work pretty well too. You can search around the internet and/or ask at the store and see if there is a strategy there.

Otherwise, I would recommend you go up a 1/2 size and see how that goes. Again, an insert might help the fit if the top of the boot is too loose. The inserts I have are called SuperFeet. They made a HUGE difference in the way the boot fit.

Peg

Brie,

Of course I don't mind! That's what this forum is all about, everyone sharing their ideas. Thank you for jumping in.

Your comments have me thinking that maybe I need to take a step back here. Yes, I think my "training" hike went well; but I have to keep in mind that that was not the real thing (elevation and milage). I cannot get cocky here because I will end up overestimating my own abilities.

Specifically, I did not tell my friend that I am determined to get to the summit. I didn't want to appear overzealous.

Also, I know that his life is even crazier than mine. He and his wife just adopted their 2 1/2 year old nephew. (long sad story that lead to my friends stepping in--they are incredibly compassionate people!) He has not gotten back to me as to whether or not he can join us. If he is able to, I will talk with him.

I also do not want to come across as a drill sergeant, either. The other members of the party have been so wonderful in reassuring me that this hike will be whatever I need or want it to be. I don't want to dampen that spirit in any way. (I'm also a little gun shy about expressing my own opinions lately. That's how the whole mess with my BIL and the roof happened. BTW, although the roof is done, the family is not healed. Again, live and learn.)

Lynne,

I forgot to answer your question about why I love it. I believe I've told you all that my family used to spend six a minimum of six weeks camping at White Lake State Park. (That's in NH for our other friends here.) We started doing that when I was seven and continued for about ten years. Then other branches of the family picked up the idea so I was able to join them well into my 20s. I just love that place! As a matter of fact, I haven't been there yet this year. I must make time before school starts again.

When we started doing this, it was just my parents, my sister, and me. Although my sister and I did spend lots and lots of time together, she did not like walking in the woods like I do. I would just go off and walk. My parents' rule was simply that I couldn't leave the park. (It was also the '60s-'70s, and it was much safer to allow children to not be accompanied at all times.)

Although I do remember being in the woods thinking "Get me out of here!" because I was lonely and bored, I now think of it as taking me back to a time when the only responsibilities I had were chores. And if I wasn't dragging my feet, I could usually get all of that done in about 20 minutes and then have the whole day to myself.

I'm thinking that a better explanation would be that when I walk in the woods, it takes me back to a state of mind when I believed in Santa Claus. Not the whole Christmas thing, but just the time in my life when ignorance was bliss.

Peg,

I have another question. I'm thinking that I need to get a larger size boot. At about the 1 hour, 45 minute mark, I noticed that my toes were starting to hit the front of the boot when walking downhill. The "fitter" had warned me about this, and continually asked me in the store if my toes were hitting. They weren't then. And I was using the little slope they have in the store.

I did stop and relace my boots. That helped for about 10 minutes, but it started again. I again relaced. Ten minutes later it was back. This time I relaced and paid very close attention to the way I was doing it. I was thinking that maybe the laces were slipping before I tied the bow. Again, 10 minutes later, I was having a problem.

REI says their policy is that I will be happy in whatever I purchase from them. And since I joined their "membership," they told me that that really seals the deal. I'm not worried that I can't exchange them. My concern is that when I tried on the size 9 (the boots I purchased were the 8 1/2), I did not like the feel of them. They were too loose around the top of my foot. I also tried the other brands of boots that they had in the full support range and didn't care for them.

The question is: Although I finished the hike and did not suffer from banged up toes, this was not a hike of any serious elevation. I'm thinking that my toes are not going to be happy when I'm coming down a mountain. I'm not wrong, right?

Thanks!

Bill

quote:

I do have a major concern, though. Another friend, who is also friends with my two hiking buddies, found out that we were planning a trip. I really would have asked this person to join us, but the last time he went out with others for a hike, he told me he hated it. Well, I ended up inviting him to join us. I'm hoping that he is taking my cautions seriously. I truly think he thinks this is just going to be a walk in the woods with some beer drinking with his buddies afterwards. I'm not happy because I'm afraid that he's going to be the one who calls a halt to the hike long before the rest of us will. Oh, well. Saftey of all parties is the priority; but, damn! I want to get to the summit. Well, if it doesn't happen, at least I know the beer part will be worth it. Oh, that's probably a male thing. You can tell your friends anything as long as there's a beer in your hands. Bill

Bill
First off, congrats on the successful completion of your 3 hour training hike! That's awesome! I haven't been hiking in the mountains in years and I really miss it (like skiing ; ).

I have the same walking vs. hiking definition - walking is what I do around the neighborhood, mall or in the local parks. Hiking is off road, unpaved paths with varying terraine in my book.

As for the new addition to your group I have a couple of thoughts (hope you don't mind). Were you 100% clear with him about what your expectations are and how much you really want to try to finish this hike? From all your posts on this thread, my impression is that you would be really disappointed if he called it quits and ruined it for your group. Can he possibly bring another friend with him who isn't into it quite as much who would turn back with him if necessary? That way it wouldn't force the rest of the more serious hikers back.

quote:

OK, stupid question, but what is the difference between being a hiker and being a walker? Like, why does someone say I love walking vs. I love hiking? And what do hikers love most about their sport?

Not a stupid question (and sorry, meant to come back and answer this and forgot until I saw Bill's post). I consider myself both. Walking to me is in the city w/limited elevation gain and in a generally populated area (with running water, etc. hehe). Hiking (at least in CO) means a trail, usually in the mountains, elevation loss/gain, no running water, etc. I have a friend who considers any hike less than a "death march" (ie: long with LOTS of elevation gain) to be 'a nice little walk'. LOL I find my definition to be much lower than that!

What do I love? Well, for me the connection to nature is just overwhelmingly wonderful. I had no idea I was starving for that connection until I took this up. It's not like I'm id'ing every bird or tree or flower or whatever. It's not that for me (although that is it for a lot of hikers). For me it is the experience of getting away from my life (oh, yeah, another definition of a walk vs. hike is cell service vs. none) for a few hours and I find it to be very effective stress release. Actually I am feeling really stressed out today and I kept trying to figure out how to get out for a bit of a hike but of course, didn't. Sunday will be here soon enough. Of course, the scenery where I hike is sensational and I do get a great deal of exercise without the gym so those are all advantages too.

Hope that helps!

Peg

Lynne,

I guess that I should really pass your question onto Peg because I am really a newbie hiker here. However, you know that I'm going to have an opinion so I might as well go for it.

A walker, to me, is someone who walks. That includes hikers. I think hikers are folks who want to walk in a specific environment, i.e, woods, mountains, etc. Hiking includes elevation and uneven walking surfaces. My two cents.

And nip in the air? Oh, yes. Apple picking season is just around the corner. Hot cider, crisp apples, Brown Betties. Oh, stop, Bill. Sensory overload!!!

Sheri,

YES! Actually, I haven't had time to update you all. The next day, I went on my dry run. I donned the hiking boots and the pack and went on three-hour hike. OMG! I loved every minute of it! Maybe it's my Puritan New England roots, but this much fun must be sinful! (Okay. My family comes from Portugal, Lebanon, and Canada; but I'm a New Englander through and through.)

Oh, boy, did that train derail. Sorry. Yes, Sheri, the trail is VERY different from the treadmill. I am so glad that I did this before hitting the real trail. (Thank you, Peg and Denise!)

I am also very pleased to tell you that I awoke this morning without pain, and I was able to take another hike (in sneakers and no pack) today. I still feel great.

Again, I know that these trails are not the same as the one I'm aiming for. I know that I need to keep up the "training." And I will.

I do have a major concern, though. Another friend, who is also friends with my two hiking buddies, found out that we were planning a trip. I really would have asked this person to join us, but the last time he went out with others for a hike, he told me he hated it. Well, I ended up inviting him to join us. I'm hoping that he is taking my cautions seriously. I truly think he thinks this is just going to be a walk in the woods with some beer drinking with his buddies afterwards. I'm not happy because I'm afraid that he's going to be the one who calls a halt to the hike long before the rest of us will. Oh, well. Saftey of all parties is the priority; but, damn! I want to get to the summit. Well, if it doesn't happen, at least I know the beer part will be worth it. Oh, that's probably a male thing. You can tell your friends anything as long as there's a beer in your hands. We (males) understand that exaggeration is expected when beer is involved. Thank goodness I don't do this often, but it really is something, whether it makes sense or not, that I need right now. Friends are much too important to all of us, and I really need to connect with my other friends right now. Of course, one of these friends is likening our hike to "Deliverance." We're taking bets on who will squeal like a pig. They're a group of sick puppies.

Okay. I'm rambling here. Time to go.

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill:
If you read my challenge post, you'll see that I got out for a 100-minute hike this afternoon. It was spur of the moment so I didn't have my hiking boots, but it was fantastic! I haven't been to these trails in three years. They're not very big, but they are rocky, uneven, etc.

I found that, when I went from powerwalking on a treadmill to powerwalking outdoors (just around town here in the DC suburbs), I really felt it in my shins because of the unevenness of the sidewalks, curbs, etc. Are you feeling yesterday afternoon's hike today differently than you would feel your hour on the treadmill?

That is so awesome, Bill. I can feel your excitement. I'm glad you are getting good help picking out your stuff. Gotta love that bite me technology. I've been thinking of getting a camel back for longer bike rides, but I need to try atleast a 20 mile before I will "earn" the right in my head to make that investment. With this incredible nip in the air we have this morning, I can't wait for Fall to bring better riding and hiking conditions for all of us! Atleast us northerners.

OK, stupid question, but what is the difference between being a hiker and being a walker? Like, why does someone say I love walking vs. I love hiking? And what do hikers love most about their sport?

Lynne

Having good luck with the incline on the treadmill. I'm still at the 0.5 level. No leg pain. I'm very happy about this.

If you read my challenge post, you'll see that I got out for a 100-minute hike this afternoon. It was spur of the moment so I didn't have my hiking boots, but it was fantastic! I haven't been to these trails in three years. They're not very big, but they are rocky, uneven, etc. Tomorrow, I'm skipping my treadmill and heading to the same trails for another hike. I'm planning the walk around the reservoir. In the past, this has taken me two hours.

I shall be wearing my new pack. I stopped at REI this afternoon and starting talking to the staff. Before I knew it, I was wearing this pack around the store. Then the staff member added weighted pillows to give me a feel for the pack. Thirty minutes later, I was the proud owner. I left it in the car so I can't tell you the make and model. I'll do that tomorrow evening.

While I was there, I also picked up a "personal shovel" and a bottle of their recommended hand sanitizer. They tried to sell me toilet paper, but I think I can find some of that in my closet.

Peg, I took your thoughts into account in the pack's selection. I went with a "higher" model that can handle one of those water bladders. I went into fits of laughter in the store when I read that the bladder has "Bite Me" technology. I'm assuming that the water tube is closed until you bite down on it, and then you suck the water through the tube. I just think that phrase is quite funny.

So, as I said, tomorrow I'm going to make my first dry run. I'll bring the pack with map and compass and water and snack and hit the trail. I really don't need the map as I know my way around this place, but I think some orienteering is in order.

25 days till Mt. Chocorua!

Bill

I'm so glad you are planning your training, because what that will give you is priceless. Small goals collect to become great leaps in personal fitness. Yes, I can't believe that sentance came out of me, either. Or that I'm dressed for a run at 7:10 on an August morning. But I'll take it.

Here's a good quote I read today: The thought manifests as the word; the word manifests as the deed; the deed develops into habit; and the habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care.

I'm scared of the treadmill's incline button too. Let me know what that's like! Off to run, tootaloo.

Lynne

quote:

I have a question for you. Why do you recommend the Nalgene water bottle? I was just going to get a couple of bottles of Poland Springs. What makes them your preference

I think the 1 liter bottles of bottled water are sort of ungainly and I want to carry as much water as I can. Also, I ALWAYS drop mine at some point and the Nalgene are virtually indestructable. One other thing is I like to freeze mine partially full the night before and again, they won't break. That being said if you are only going to hike a few times a year, the grocery store bottled water should work great. I know your description said you'd have an oppty for water but don't go out there without plenty on you.

quote:

What do you use for cleaning your hands after taking care of personal functions? And I'm assuming that if you're bringing some kind of cleansing cloths, you also need to bring zip type plastic bags to carry out the used cloths. Do I also need to carry a small shovel with me?

I carry a small bottel of Purell hand sanitizer in my pack. I prefer the alcohol based stuff instead of antibacterial stuff (I try not to give the bacteria any more oppty to mutate into resistant bugs than I have to). If you carry plain ole tp, you can bury that but I would carry out anything else. I suppose hardcore leave no trace folks would say carry it out. I usually bury mine. As far as needing to go #2, yes, you are supposed to dig a 6in cathole and bury your waste. Also be at least 100 yards from any water source regardless of which # you are shedding.

Hope you get out on your hike this week!

Peg

Oh, hey, Peg!

I must have been typing my post while you were typing your two.

Thanks for the article on the training. Yes, I am looking for a pack. I don't think I'll use it while on the treadmill at the gym, but that's a great idea for the simulated hikes around my area.

Also an excellent point about what my criteria will be for turning back. My friends have literally used the phrase "We are not hard core hikers. We are wimps." I will be feeling worse about not completing the hike than they will. I had not even thought of having to do that with a group of strangers! Talk about pressure! I have tucked that little piece of advice away for the future.

I have a question for you. Why do you recommend the Nalgene water bottle? I was just going to get a couple of bottles of Poland Springs. What makes them your preference?

And I do have another question that follows along Denise's issue of bacteria on the trail. What do you use for cleaning your hands after taking care of personal functions? And I'm assuming that if you're bringing some kind of cleansing cloths, you also need to bring zip type plastic bags to carry out the used cloths. Do I also need to carry a small shovel with me? The reality of this is that I plan to take care of these things before we hit the trail, but Mother Nature has a nasty way of surprising you when it's most inconvenient.

Oh, boy. I can't believe this. I just went to Amazon to see if they have anything on the subject, and they do. It's called "How to S*** in the Woods: An Environmentally Sound Approach to a Lost Art." (Asterisks added by me.) Do I really need a manual for this?

Glad you got to go out on the hills today. I'm hoping to do my first simulation either Wednesday or Friday. Unfortunately, I have to deal with car services issues for the next couple of days. Life just keeps getting in the way.

Bill

quote:

Originally posted by mountaingirl:
I know things I couldn't have learned any other way. That, and I now have the thighs for the job, thank you very much.

So, how goes the training?!

Lynne,

I'm still laughing over the way you phrased this! And what it really says to me is that this is not the same person who nervously signed up for her first tri. Did you ever think you'd be talking about something physical like this with this much confidence? WAY COOL!

Actually, the "training" is going well. I do not have a specific plan in mind. I am just going to keep at the treadmill and to try to do some hiking around the North Shore (nothing like NH, but it is something.) I also decided to start using the incline feature of the treadmill. I have been avoiding it because I usually end up straining my calves and shins and then stop walking. This particular treadmill has half-inclines (don't know if that's the correct term). In other words, I can set it for an incline of 0.5, 1.0, 1.5, etc. This morning, I used the 0.5 for the first time. My legs were screaming at me for the first ten minutes. After that, I forgot that I was on an incline. And now, eight hours later, my legs feel great. Tomorrow morning will be the real indicator, though. If I'm not suffering from anything other than a little overuse strain, I'll keep at this for two or three more days and then bump it up to an incline of 1.0. I'm sure you all get the picture here.

I also wanted to add that after Peg's and Denise's comments about being exhausted after a long hike, I voiced this concern to my friends. One of them works with a guy who has done this hike before. This person said that although the guidebook says that it's a 3.5 hour hike one way, that this is a very conservative time. This person is not an avid hiker, and he and his friends did the hike (again, one way) in about 2.5 hours. My friend has also reminded me that we will simply turn back if any of us have problems or concerns.

The other good suggestion that my friend had was to spend the night in NH after the hike. The trailhead is a 2.5 hour drive from my home, and it will actually be longer because I'll have to backtrack a little bit to pick up my friends.

Because my friend has suggested that we spend the night in NH (in a motel/hotel, not on the mountain--hopefully ) after our hike, we have had to move up the date (also because of work schedules). We are now tentatively planning for Sat., Sept. 17. Only 26 days of training left, then the hike. OMG, that's just under four weeks!

Well, that was probably a much longer answer than you anticipated; but thanks for asking. Talking about it gets my circuits firing! Who needs Snickers when there's a mountain out there to climb? (laughing)

Bill

quote:

The other thing that I have not mentioned is that my friends said that they would be happy to join me under the condition that if at any time any one of us wants to turn back, we all agree to do so. No ifs, ands, or buts. Knowing that I can push the "panic" button if I need to is what is allowing me to be a little more ambitious.

This is great! Since I know you like to sort of 'plan ahead' for this sort of thing, I'll warn you that this is sometimes easier said than done. You might want to think about what your own personal criteria are going to be and also what words you'd like to use if this comes up. I find if I'm with trusted friends, no sweat, I'll cry "uncle" but when I am on a CMC hike, it's very tough for me to be the one that turns the group around. I really should've on a hike this spring and I watched another lady have to do it and it was tough for her too. I was really supportive of her decision and actually was the one that hollered at the leader to stop but it was tough.

Peg

It dawned on me today as I was slogging up a hill that shouldn't have been all that big of a deal and thinking about Bill and wondering if I had done a bad thing to him (no, I don't really think that...oxygen deprivation seems to depress me! hehe) that I had read a training article in one of my recent Backpacker mags. Here's the electronic copy Training Article but it isn't exactly what I remembered. Seemed like I saw a recommended gym routine. I will dig around in my hardcopies and see what I can see but in the meantime, you might get some ideas from this article.

Peg